Bartertown.com

I checked the Deadbeats & Backout section and couldn't find the answer to my question so I came here. I'm curious if I have the "right" or ability to file a backout report about another member. Here is a brief timeline:

1. I contact the other member (we'll call him PersonX) letting him know I have some models he posted about wanting
2. I let him know how many models I have and how much I'd like for them
3. He asks a question to which I respond and also let him know I have some similar miniatures to the ones I first told him about
4. He asks if I'd include one of the other models at the original price. I say yes, I also let him know I'd do the other models for a slightly higher price.

At this time, Person X stops responding to my messages (it has been 6 days now) and I have sent a total of 3 messages that he has opened. As of step 4 where he made an offer and I accepted it, do we have a "deal" in place? Preferably I'd like to conduct a deal and get rid of some models in exchange for money, but if it comes to it (and it's appropriate) I'll file a Backout report as I believe we had a trade in place. Any help with this from Mods or other people in the know would be fantastic. If needed, I can send full transcripts in PM for verification. I didn't want to post them up here with somebody's name if they weren't valid.

demonthresis wrote: As of step 4 where he made an offer and I accepted it, do we have a "deal" in place?

Did he ever say that it was a deal? Your timeline seems to make it sound like you guys were still in negotiation. Until the buyer confirms the deal, it can't be a backout.

edit:
1. I contact the other member (we'll call him PersonX) letting him know I have some models he posted about wanting
2. I let him know how many models I have and how much I'd like for them
3. He asks a question to which I respond and also let him know I have some similar miniatures to the ones I first told him about
4. He asks if I'd include one of the other models at the original price. I say yes, I also let him know I'd do the other models for a slightly higher price.
5. (the step you are missing that makes this a backout) He replies that he will buy the models for the agreed price.

In my trades, I always make sure to include that step where I outline what both sides are getting and say something 'If that is correct, please reply confirming.'

He did not use the words "it's a deal" in any way. However, I've seen that an exchange of addresses and paypal is not necessary for the deal to be considered made. He offered a proposed trade (my minis for his $30) and I said yes. To me that constitutes a deal of offer plus acceptance.

From what I understand from other backouts, the rules and what mods have said in posts (particularily MM, correct me MM if I am wrong). No details were finalized about payment methods, shipping methods/payments, and he never actually said it was a deal, he just asked if you would include another model at the original price, therefore it would not warrant a backout.

demonthresis wrote:He did not use the words "it's a deal" in any way. However, I've seen that an exchange of addresses and paypal is not necessary for the deal to be considered made. He offered a proposed trade (my minis for his $30) and I said yes. To me that constitutes a deal of offer plus acceptance.

You said yes, he didn't. That's half a deal.

A question that keeps coming up is "What constitutes a trade/purchase/agreement?" This is a good question and I am formally defining it now:

A Bartertown 'Trade' occurs when both parties have agreed to a transaction, be it a purchase (ie buyer-seller) or exhange of items and/or services, and have agreed to the terms of said transaction.
For example. Morlock and I agree to trade his Warmachine Cryx for my Warhammer Fantasy Chaos. We negotiate what we're trading specifically, we negotiate shipping terms, and we negotiate a time-frame for said shipping. Once we agree - and this can be as simple as "you're cool with that?" or as complex as sending a separate email that states the exact terms of everything agreed to along with a request to reply-with-agreement - the Trade is on.
If something unexpected happens, like a family emergency or unexpected deployment, it is the responsibility of the person in question to let the other party know what's happened within a reasonable time frame.

Remember, when it comes to trade negotiations ASSUME NOTHING.

This was taken from Linrandir's thread on Bad Trader Reporting Rules found here: http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewt ... 44&t=45472
Hopefully that will help clarify any issues.

Thank you for the example 3eland.

3eland wrote:From what I understand from other backouts, the rules and what mods have said in posts (particularily MM, correct me MM if I am wrong). No details were finalized about payment methods, shipping methods/payments, and he never actually said it was a deal, he just asked if you would include another model at the original price, therefore it would not warrant a backout.

That is a pretty accurate assessment.

I'd have probably used 3 to 4 times as many words (LOL), but that is what I'd have said.

The bottom line is that you need some sort of confirmation on both sides that the deal and terms are agreed upon.


Eric

Gotcha, well thank you for the confirmation MM. So while he's not an official backout, he is a bad person who probably kicks dogs.

Yeah, if I ask a call dealer if they'd drop the price by $500, and the dealer says "yes", that doesn't mean I've agreed to purchase the car. I've merely acquired more information about the price to decide whether to buy the car.

It's unfortunate that the person has ceased communication, but inquiring about a price is in no way a commitment to buy.