Bartertown.com

Based on our investigation, your claim has been denied because our records indicate this package was delivered as addressed.

Short Story:
-Buyer paid $ for models.
-I shipped w/DC#.
-I paid for insurance.
-DC# indicates delivery (as noted above).
-Buyer says they never arrived.
-Buyer also says "this has never happened before" - meaning, a package taken/stolen from home/door/porch/etc.
-Buyer has not appeared frustrated or upset at all, which seems odd.
-I filed insurance claim online, suspecting it would be denied since tracking shows delivered.
-Sure enough - denied.
-Now what? Buyer is really minus their money AND the models, or I am minus the money AND models?

-WTFrig? I'm suddenly not seeing a lot of value in purchasing insurance if some D-Bag can just swipe it off of your porch. I've sent hundreds of packages and have filed a claim ONCE because the person was whining about a bent corner on a book - so I'm saying out of hundreds of packages sent & received, I've never had packages damaged or "lost" - why bother w/the insurance if it just covers point A to point B, and not person A to person B... I mean that IS the point of shipping a package, right? Lame.

To me, it sounds like you were scammed. As far I can tell, your responsibility is to get the package to the trade partner's address, that is it. The USPS says it was delivered, so your part is done. If the person lives in a cruddy neighborhood or has a thieving associate, that is not your problem. The package was mailed and delivered, so it is their concern at that point. If you have not refunded the person, I would certainly not do so. If you have refunded the money, I would at least give the person a neutral or maybe even a negative reference if you strongly feel you were scammed.

The only way to ensure that the package is absolutely delivered to the proper person is to have the signature receipt added. I know, since I was scammed out of a FW Warhound in this manner. I sold it on feebay and once it was delivered (it had DC#) the person claimed their account was hacked and paypal sided with them since I did not add the signature option AND it was over $250. So, they kept my Warhound and my $600 bucks that I needed for a medical bill. Even the local police sided with me, BUT since it was a "small" amount of money involved they would not pursue across state lines.

Just my opinion of course.

Thanks for the response - and you bring up a good point that I forgot to mention.

-Buyer is expecting some sort of compensation.
-Seller (me) has not moved forward on any type of compensation; I came here first. I just received the USPS letter today.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything; however, if it were me - and never had a package stolen from my home before - and some asshat stole my minis off of my porch - I'd be furious! 1) Because the minis I paid for are gone, and 2) Because my porch/neighborhood would no longer be safe to receive packages - and that would bum me out more than #1.

Just my opinion.

If I reimburse the buyer, if I don't - I just want to make sure I'm following Bartertown protocol.

I would say he has the problem here--the evidence is that the package was delivered.

Your buyer should make some effort to demonstrate to USPS that it was stolen.

You have a DC# and Insurance # I think you did all the was reasonable on your part.

He should check with neighbors etc and see what he can find on his end, if he's not willing to put in any work then I think it speaks volumes. I had a package a couple years ago show up when I was on vacation and had the mail held but they scanned the DC# on the package as delivered. Long story short it was at the post office under a shelf, so If I were him I'd go to the local PO and ask them to look around.

Thanks for the input s_o_r_r_o_w & imp522,

The buyer did say they had the USPS look for the package, via the DC#; it took a few days, then the USPS got back to the Buyer and said it was delivered. To my knowledge, that is the only action they took.

I don't know the laws around our USPS, but stealing mail/packages is a felony (I believe), and I would think the Buyer should have explored that avenue as well?

I was wrong about my buyer being a new trader. Their feedback is a little over 100 and they joined quarter four of '07.

-Buyer paid $ for models.
-I shipped w/DC#.
-I paid for insurance.
-DC# indicates delivery (as noted above).
-Buyer says they never arrived.
-Buyer also says "this has never happened before" - meaning, a package taken/stolen from home/door/porch/etc.
-Buyer has not appeared frustrated or upset at all, which seems odd.
-I filed insurance claim online, suspecting it would be denied since tracking shows delivered.
-Sure enough - denied.
-Now what? Buyer is really minus their money AND the models, or I am minus the money AND models?

Insurance is if it gets destroyed by the PO en route, assuming you packed *very* well w/ lots of space & packing materials. I never bother with Insurance.

DC means you delivered, and USPS confirmed it, so the fault lies with the Buyer. Either Buyer gave the wrong address, or Buyer didn't use a secure address. Or Buyer is simply lying and trying to scam you.

Buyer didn't pay for guaranteed delivery via signed personal courier.

You did your job, which was to deliver the good's to Buyer's specified address. You owe the Buyer NOTHING.

People often say that UPS is so much more expensive: Here's an apples to apples comparison: UPS provides the first $100 insurance, any insurance after that is less than half of what the post office charges. Also tracking is included/post office charges, signature req is only $1

Do you want to see if he's lying or not? Tell him, you'll mail him the d/c and insurance receipts. It's up to him to file a theft of mail claim
SINCE IT WAS STOLEN FROM HIS MAILBOX, PORCH, OR WHERE EVER. [You can't file it since as far as you know, it was delivered.]

Filing a false mail theft or fraud claim has almost the same penalty as the actual crime.


I SUGGEST that IF you do mail him the recipts, you make photocopies of both sides of each, and send the originals Certified mail. [so he can't say he didn't get that either.]

As far as USPS, and thus any court or law enforcement is concerned, it was delivered.
You have not lied or stolen.

The letter carrier [mailman] is only supposed to leave items in what they consider a secure location. IF he/she doesn't feel the porch, mail box or what ever is secure, IT"S HIS/HER RESPONSIBILITY to NOT leave it and leave a notice saying to pick it up at the post office.

That would be a problem with the buyer and his letter carrier. [and the carrier's supervisor].

kturock wrote: I SUGGEST that IF you do mail him the recipts, you make photocopies of both sides of each, and send the originals Certified mail. [so he can't say he didn't get that either.]

I won't challenge any point of kt's statement of the varying responsibilities; he is the recognized mail expert 'round these parts.

But I would advise you to keep the originals of your receipt and other documents and send only copies.

s_o_r_r_o_w wrote:

kturock wrote: I SUGGEST that IF you do mail him the recipts, you make photocopies of both sides of each, and send the originals Certified mail. [so he can't say he didn't get that either.]

I won't challenge any point of kt's statement of the varying responsibilities; he is the recognized mail expert 'round these parts.

But I would advise you to keep the originals of your receipt and other documents and send only copies.

Unfortunately, unless things [rules, regs] have changed, you MUST provide the original documents to file a claim.

Best thing.
Go to YOU post office . ASK them if the original or copy would work to file a claim.
If they say a copy is ok, then send him the copies.. if not...well, you gotta send the originals.

I think I'm going to have to chime in my agreement with kt on this.
If someone's hit nearly a 100 refscore here, I wouldn't question his word, myself. Not unless he's got somehting in his ref's that indicate a habit of this happening.
So, at this point, you've done everything we reasonably would expect you to do to ensure a safe receipt of your package. Your job is to make sure it's delivered and, according to the proof you have, you did.

http://www.usps.com/insurance/welcome.htm

This link indicates that he may have a fighting chance:

• Provides up to $5,000 indemnity coverage for a lost or damaged item.

One could reasonably argue that it was lost and, I'd think, have a chance at vindication, if you were willing to follow through as far as it required. USPS is supposed to be a caretaker of your mail and, IMO, leaving it on your porch isn't very safe. As much as I enjoy coming home to find a box on my porch, someone else could've been just as happy to misappropriate it before I got there.

Eric

Thanks kturoch & MagickalMemories.

Advice & suggestions well taken. From all of the responses, and consistency there in, I feel comfortable contacting my victim. I probably won't post again because I feel like I have a lot of good, consistent information - so lock the thread if you'd like.

Thanks again to everyone; you all make Bartertown a fantastic community.

Cheers

-Rik

I'd like to know what the ultimate resolution on this is when you find out.