Bartertown.com

Hey folks.

I bought a lot of Chaos Dwarfs from a member here about a month ago. Later I sold them on Ebay. Everything went well, until now.....
A person I sold 1 lot to on Ebay said that the Chaos Dwarf Hobgoblin Sneaky Gits are recasts/bootlegs. I did notice the metal looked a little different, but I just thought they used a different metal or something. I honestly had no idea. The buyer wants a refund.

Will GW give me some kind of credit if i turn them in?

The buyer said the metal is different(it is silvery), there are mold lines (ha- its GW!), and the figs are smaller than his "originals".

I asked the buyer for some proof/pics - comparing the figs.

Whatcha think??!

I dont wanna be out $60+

starslayer wrote:The buyer said the metal is different(it is silvery), there are mold lines (ha- its GW!), and the figs are smaller than his "originals". ... I dont wanna be out $60+

Is the eBay buyer at least going to return them to you for the refund (& assuming that you don't strongly disagree with them about the figs being pirated)?

GW will give you nothing if you turn them in.

I'd want to see some pics before agreeing that they were recasts. You might also want to run them by the guys who run the CCM Wiki.

starslayer wrote:Hey folks.

I bought a lot of Chaos Dwarfs from a member here about a month ago. Later I sold them on Ebay. Everything went well, until now.....
A person I sold 1 lot to on Ebay said that the Chaos Dwarf Hobgoblin Sneaky Gits are recasts/bootlegs. I did notice the metal looked a little different, but I just thought they used a different metal or something. I honestly had no idea. The buyer wants a refund.

starslayer wrote:Will GW give me some kind of credit if i turn them in?

Nope, doubt they will even care.

starslayer wrote:The buyer said the metal is different(it is silvery), there are mold lines (ha- its GW!), and the figs are smaller than his "originals".

It could be from a number of factors. The metal could of been heated to hot, different composition etc could cause the "silvery" metal look

Mold lines really don't say a lot. Where there double mold lines? Sometimes and I say sometimes that could be caused by a recaster. It used to be a more obvious sign that miniatures were recast if they showed a double mold line but I've gotten them from GW with that so it's hard to say that that holds true.

They could of replaced the molds at one time. Did he measure them? Can he send you pictures with rulers next to the ones you sold him and the ones he has? Maybe his are fake?

starslayer wrote:I asked the buyer for some proof/pics - comparing the figs.

Whatcha think??!

I dont wanna be out $60+

I don't think a picture will show you that you'rs are recast and it's going to be hard for him to provide proof..
So if you didn't think they were recast when you sold them then I wouldn't worry about giving him a refund.

Call GW. Moderately Seriously.

On their website, under their IP Policy, they CLAIM to care about re-cast figures,
[quote='GW Legal"]What to do if you are the victim of counterfeiters

Sadly, the people that suffer most from counterfeiters are you guys - after all who wants to pay for a badly-cast fake?

What we suggest is that if you encounter a counterfeiter, get as much information as you can before you contact us: where you saw them, who was selling them, where they are being made, etc. If you can, buy a representative sample and GET A RECEIPT. If the products are indeed counterfeit, we will reimburse you for any postage costs and will try to replace any counterfeit with the genuine article (please be aware that this may not always be possible)[/quote]

Notice the last sentence.

Now, since they are probably OOP models, you are out of luck. But, heck.. call the customer service number and ask what they want you to do if you get the models back.

Well- it might turn out OK after-all. I contacted the person I bought them from & he agreed to reimburse me for the auction price of the figs. Hes being very good about it.
The Ebay buyer can send them directly to him & I will refund his money.

I'll keep you posted here.

Thanks guys!

Did the guy you got them from know they were recasts?

Did the buyer ever provide proof the items are recasts? Feebay buyers are not always known to be the most honest individuals.


Eric

I dont think the seller thought they were recasts.

Im waiting for the Ebay buyer to reply.

Just got the Ebay guys reply. Now he is saying the Hobgoblin Warriors (along with the Sneaky Gits) are fakes too. I handled the Hob Warriors extensively and I do not beleive they are fakes. This may be a case of buyers remorse- Ive asked for proof.

He wants to file a refund with Paypal. How do you think they will handle it? I marked- no refunds on Ebay.
How do think this will be handled??? At the least he can nail my Ebay seller feedback- right?

It does sound like buyers remorse to me. I don't think most people at GW could spot fakes of their own miniatures. If he bought anything else from you I'd be prepared to have him come back and say they are fake too.

Yep he can leave you a negative and there's not much you can do about it. Ebay will side with the buyer.
I'm not 100% sure on how paypal will handle it, but I'd at least make sure there are no funds sitting in there for them to take or put a hold onto.

Wouldn't he have to prove they are fakes? I know he has to prove his case. So if he can't prove they are fakes, it boils down to his word against yours.

Ironhide wrote:Wouldn't he have to prove they are fakes? I know he has to prove his case. So if he can't prove they are fakes, it boils down to his word against yours.

Ive asked him (Ebay buyer)for proof- Im waiting on his reply. The bartertown member has been a total-stand-up guy about the whole thing.

Hurt to burst a couple bubbles here, and hopefully not bring it off-topic.
But..Ebay doesn't always side with buyers.

Twice I've been a buyer, and had problems with sellers. Twice ebay sided with the seller.
1st several years ago, I bought a 'well painted Blood angels Death comapny'. The minis were regular [generic] minis poorly painted, with broken and missing parts. Ebay's answer; 'items as described.'

2nd was a few monthes ago. I bought a chaos army. All the minis were either broken or apart. There was almost no packing material in the box. Pieces were actually falling out, or would have, if the box wasn't sealed closed with duct tape. Parts were actually stuck to the tape. I had to build and/or repair all of them to even count what was there. Some had so much paint on them, I couldn't even identify what they were. Generic minis were counted as specific. [green painted csm as Plague marines]. 3 rhinos; 1 customized, 1 partially built, 1 unbuilt; ended up as 1 buried with 4 layers of paint and 1 unbuilt. There were missing minis, not enough bodies to fulfill the number specified; generic or specific. Parts missing. [Raptors w/o wings. Havocs w/o guns.] An overall bad deal. I asked for some money back, to make up for the missing parts and damage that had to be repaired.

After going back and forth with ebay, since the seller said everything was perfect when he shipped it, the final message was "Since you messed with the figures, no refund can be given." [emphasis added] Messed. I very technical term used by a supposed customer service rep. No one from ebay would respond further to my questions. Because I built/repaired the dmaged models, to count them, and see what was actaully missing, ebay said no. Oh, yeah, it took almost 1 month for ebay's final decision. They wanted me to hold the broken parts that long.

I believe I sent MM a copy of the last pm becuase he couldn't believe the poor serivce from ebay to me as a buyer.

My point, it depends on who you get as a CSR for ebay.

I thought GW had a program where they would buy back/replace reproductions from people who bought stuff thinking it was real????

I had pictures in the auction and "no refunds" listed. Im willing to work with the guy, but I want to see proof.