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Fellow Traders,

I am trying to solidify a semi competitive SW list and was hoping for your opinions. First let me say a few things, first, I don't play alot (full and part time job, masters degree and three kids, easy math there) which means playtesting a list is very difficult for me, next, when I do play it is either against a buddy of mine who is a state away and his armies which are either Nid or SM, therefore I don't have alot of exposure to IG, Crons, Orks etc (I do have an eldar army so I am familiar with their strengths and units), finally, even though I am handicapped by my first and second point, I am no ametuer- I have been involved in the hobby since 1988, I keep up on other forums and read articles etc and thankfully am blessed with a half way working brain. I certainly have my opinions but respect those of others as well. All that being said I am trying to create an army that utilizes alot of models I already own and have painted (there are elements I would like to try later but those models are further down the road, such as Thunderwolves). Anyways I am shooting for 1850, but am going to play test it in steps.

So here is my foundation and my thoughts on expansion- I will not include points I think I am pretty close.

5 GH- 1 plasma/WG in termie armor with cyclone ML and CP
5 GH- 1 plasma/WG in termie armor with cyclone ML and CP
6 LF 5 ML
6 LF 5 ML
1 LW - SS, TH meltabombs
1 Rune Priest- LL, Tempest
2 Rhinos with HK
(Okay this is the core of the army, I sit on my objective and shoot- the Rune Priest uses living lightning and against deep striking armies, drops tempest to prevent anything from skimmers to deep striking BA on getting close without losing some of their numbers). Lone wolf is a speed bump against any assault units that weather the shooting- if none around, he runs to contest an objective and seek a worthy death. Note, the rhinos stay off board in reserve, I want to utilize them in later rounds when hopefully I have destroyed some of my opponents anti armor weapons and since they have HK's they can move on and perhaps get a shot off on side armor.

Part 2- Drop Pod support, this is where I have a hard time:
9 Grey Hunters, 1 melta, 1 MoW, 1 Banner
1 WG with combimelta, pfist
Drop Pod

9 Grey Hunters, 1 melta, 1 MoW, 1 Banner
1 WG with combimelta, pfist
Drop Pod

6 WG- I am thinking 2 in termie armor with combiplas and pfist, 1 in PA with MoW, 1 with combiplas, 2 with WCs
1 Rune Priest - MH, JoTWW
Drop Pod

Dread in drop pod with multimelta and heavy flamer


I have points left above to add a bit more- I guess my biggest problem is I dont have a rock. I was thinking of adding Logan (in which case I would change my 2nd Long Fang unit to MM and pod them with him) or Arjac perhaps or just a termie lord with Saga of the Bear, Pfist, Belt of Russ, combiplasma and wolf necklace.

Alternately, my second idea was this:
Fire Base
10 GH, 2 plasma, MoW
1 WG, termie armor, cyclone, combiplas

2x6 LF with ML

Rune Priest
Lone Wolf

Assault
8 GH, melta, MoW, Stnd
1 WG, termie armor, cyclone, combimelta
drop pod

9 GH, melta, MoW, Stnd
1 WG, pfist, combimelta

Then whatever.

I guess I am asking twofold- how do I finish off my army and whether I take 3 large squads of GH or 4 squads- 2 large and 2 small and which armies I might have difficulty with. Thanks for your input.

GH are the core to build around. I say at least 4 squads of them. 10-man with WG for objective sitting, or 9-man with WG or RP for walking the board. Runepriest are always a good selection. Logan is a good choice for a "rock". Big fan of LF w/ WG CML+SS. Another unit to look at is Wolf Scouts. These guys can really cause havoc in the enemy's deployment zone.

Not sure if it will help,

A friend of mine has started to field Njal along side his "sit and hold" unit. It makes it extremely difficult to get close to that particular unit as the game progresses.
You really have no long range "oomph" Yeah I see the ML's but they have a hard time against A14 vehicles. Glancing the death just doesn't happen in our area much. I do see all the extra short range melta but I'm personally finding that people are just getting to good at staying away from the 6" that they require to be "reliable".

Razorbacks w/ TL Assault Cannons are good against AV14.

Do not take najal... His powers are stupid, I mean they do not work if u go seccond according to the FAQ.

I'd say drop the pods (haha) and focus on either being a "shooty" sw list as this is what u seem to prefer. This also means making the dreds be TLAC ones and adding in razorbacks (I prefer the twin plas/ las over assault cannon) and more then likely dropping just about any unit that either is not a troop or missil launcher with wounds.

Oh and as for the lone wolf do the chainfist, stsheild, termy with 2x pups so u have a little missil u shoot at a enemy vehicle.

well then my guess is that he is taking Njal becuase of my horrible skills at rolling to go first. I honestly do not think I've won a single "go first" roll since 5th came out.

EZ: I prefer the TH to the Chainfist- the meltabombs gives me 2d6 armor pen, just like the chainfist and the TH protects my grey hunters- if a MC charges a unit of grey hunters and chews up a few, the LW can stun it so that all the GH the next turn would be able to strike before him and hopefully killing it. I do pay an extra 5 pts though.

Brian Adair wrote:EZ: I prefer the TH to the Chainfist- the meltabombs gives me 2d6 armor pen, just like the chainfist and the TH protects my grey hunters- if a MC charges a unit of grey hunters and chews up a few, the LW can stun it so that all the GH the next turn would be able to strike before him and hopefully killing it. I do pay an extra 5 pts though.

Wait are you trying to put a lone wolf is a unit? If so read again. He cannot join a unit. Or are u saying u get charged, then next turn u charge and at init 1 u stun the model then the NEXT turn your now very few grey hunters are striking it easier?

A lone wolf is 85 with the chain fist/term/sheild (too many points for the wolfs actually) with 2wounds feel no pain 2+save/3+ with 3attacks at st 8 2d6 arm pen with his whole reverse kill point thing. This guy is good because you must shoot alot at him to kill him or he WILL kill vehicles but if they do then they give u a kill point.

Hey Brian, your in Charlottesville, VA right? I was up in Staunton at the Dragon's Hoard a few months back and they had some OOP SW items in his discount area near the front window. So if you're looking for more models and want to keep edition integrity.....

@EZ: What are you talking about his powers don't work if you go second?

The njal powers for adding the turn to it. Because gw cannot write rules very well they say that a njal player going second that any power that would affect enemy models on the top of the turn do not get affected.

I did not mean the phsycic powers just the storm thing.

@EZ, no, I was not trying to join a LW to a unit (my thoughts were most likely jumbled)- what I was trying to imply was let's say I have a LW and some grey hunters charge a tyrgon, most likely they will not kill it in the first round, however, the LW should wound it a few times with the thunderhammer which means it will strike last in the subsequent round- therefore all the surviving GH and MoW will have a chance to finish it off before the Tyrgon can strike- hopefully saving a few bodies. Although the LW can't join a unit, there is nothing saying I can't stick him right in front of my GH squad, so if you charge the GH, you have to get into base to base with him as well- again the Thunderhammer would help.

The lone wolf build I am currently going to try and playtest is this one:
LW, Termie Armor, SS, MB, CP-
My thoughts are this- first the huge disadvantage with the LW is he is slow or you rely on your opponent to come to you. The combiplasma does allow him to reach out and touch someone at least once a game. The LW can have trouble taking out MC's because of his low number of attacks and striking last (most people put thunderhammers or chainfists on him)-so MCs get to strike first and you always have the chance of rolling a 1 and a 2 when rolling for saves and dying. The combiplasma is nice, I can run up and shoot an MC in the face twice and chances are good I hit twice with his rerolls- so potentially on average dice, I can put 2 wounds on an MC without getting into base contact. Once I charge, with MoW, I get 2+d6 attacks that rend, so I have a chance of putting a third wound on the MC at initiative, rather than striking last. I guess the advantage to the MoW over a powerweapon or TH is the fact that I can also charge into infantry (like guard or eldar) and with the high number of attacks potentially kill 3-4, while I can get bogged down with a TH doing 1-2 wounds. The meltabombs allow me to take out tanks just fine. So what I have made is a frothing barbarian who is a jack of all trades and a master of none. In an all comers list, I think that is important, he has the tools to deal with any situation.

@Ironhide: I really appreciate it, but I integrated the old and new (I have old LF and new one, oop WG and new ones, scouts same etc etc) so I am pretty much good on any infantry models- I am still looking for some more tanks for an all mech army but I always used the new rhino chasis anyways. If you are ever in the area, feel free to call and we can set up a game- I will PM you my information.

I don't like Njal. 2 Rune Priests essentially do everything he does with the exception of the Storm Caller Ability. Frankly because of the random nature of the chart and the fact that many of the results are army specific, it just isn't worth the points. For example, lets say you get the result "all units in 18" have to pass a morale check" and you are playing mech eldar or "all units count as moving through difficult terrain"- when casting MH is so much better because your opponent actually loses models on 1's, or "-1 to BS" and you are playing a demon horde. If you could choose any result lower than what you rolled so you could semi tailor the result to what you needed, then I would say it is worth it-

Roll a 2, turn 3 for a result of 5- now I can choose any result 1-5, so I could take the -1 BS or the Move as through diffficult terrain- etc etc.

For the same price as Njal you can take 2 RP and a drop pod or rhino for your army and still have some points left over. You cover the board further with your hoods, you have more wounds, you are less likely to get both RP killed and lose all your psychic ability and even though they aren't great- you have more attacks if need be in close combat.

I do want to work a few lascannons into my list, that is a glaring weakness- what do folks think about running my LF teams like this

5 LF, 1 Packleader, 1 Lascannon, 3 ML
5 LF, 1 Packleader, 1 Lascannon, 3 ML

This allows me to fire the 3 MLs at a target netting 2 hits on average which should get me a roll on the glance/pen table with armor 12

And using split fire, take my lascannon single shots at the pred or monolith or landraider. With only 1 guy with a lascannon, hopefully I can use wound allocation to keep him alive longer than the ML.

Finally, how do you guys rate units of SW termies when compared to other terminators? I don't see many people taking them, if you do please share how they do and how you equip them.

Okay I am going to start with the following lists, if you see any little tweaks, please let me know. My idea is I can run the LW in front of my Grey Hunter squads as they advance- thus anyone wishing to assault my GH will have to assault my LW as well. In games where an opponent is going to come to me, I use them to ward off enemies to my LF squads. My initial thoughts were I put a RP in both LF squads and 1 with a GH squad- preferrably the one in termie armor (I have the model). Do I put one lascannon in each LF squad or both of them in one? I figured they would be more protected with 1 in each.

All infantry in a mech world- at least it is different.

6 LF 4 ML, 1 Las

6 LF 4 ML, 1 Las

LW Termie, Combiplas, MB, SS

LW Termie, Combiplas, MB, SS

Rune Priest

Rune Priest

Grey Hunter- 10, 2xPlas, MoW, Stnd

Grey Hunter- 10, Melta, Mow, Stnd

Grey Hunter- 10, Melta, Mow, Stnd

1xWG with Cyclone CombiPlas (Plas GH)

2xWG with pfist, combimelta (2 GH Squads)

2xWG in Termie (Long Fangs) 1/wcombip

Total: 1500



6 LF 4 ML, 1 Las

6 LF 4 ML, 1 Las

LW Termie, Combiplas, MB, SS

LW Termie, Combiplas, MB, SS

Rune Priest

Rune Priest

Rune Priest

Grey Hunter- 10, 2xPlas, MoW, Stnd

Grey Hunter- 10, Melta, Mow, Stnd

Grey Hunter- 10, Melta, Mow, Stnd

1xWG with Cyclone CombiPlas (Plas GH)

2xWG with pfist, combimelta (2 GH Squads)

2xWG in Termie (Long Fangs)

Either a TW Lord or 5 TW

Total: 1850

My question would be on the second list, do I drop a LW and try to get an IP on TW and a Lord on TW (or Squad of TW instead of the lord and an IP on TW)?

Are you changing your list AGAIN? Do you want me to hold off painting the last 2 ML LFs? If you weren't bigger than me I would say you are indecisive, but you are and I won't.

Brian Adair wrote:Finally, how do you guys rate units of SW termies when compared to other terminators? I don't see many people taking them, if you do please share how they do and how you equip them.

SW Termies are the cheapest out there. You can take Logan and make a quasi-Deathwing list (or as some folks call it, Loganwing).

They are the cheapest for certain situations but I wouldnt say they are the cheapest.

If you want cheap assault termies, you take bog standard SM's at 40pts. If you want the cheapest termies, you take Chaos at 30 pts. The area I see SW termies shine is combiweapons, but of course when you start adding them the cost increases- I think their optimal build is a combiweapon of choice and a wolf claw at 43 pts- but now, they aren't the cheapest anymore. Thoughts?