SW Split Fire Meaningless?

[Brian Adair]

As a long time SW player and someone who has 2 squads of ML long fangs, I was wondering what people thought of the split fire rule. In theory it allows you to split your fire between two targets and hopefully avoid any wasted shots. However, the more I think about it, when I assign a high priority to a target, I want to nullify it and quite frankly when you split fire, you don't roll enough dice to ensure most targets go down.

For instance, let's say I have 5 ML armed Long fangs and 2 wave serpents are on the board zooming forward, I could throw all 5 dice at one, get 3 hits and 1-2 rolls on the armor table or I could risk throwing 3 dice at 1, netting 1 hit and 2 dice at the other- having 2/3rds chance of getting a hit. Obviously you could get really lucky in the second scenario but, more than likely, you do nothing to either tank.

Now, perhaps they are landspeeders instead of falcons- would it matter, you still have to hit, and roll high enough on the armor damage table. I guess what I am saying is splitting 3/2 or 4/1 just doesn't give enough odds either way and I never seem to find a scenario where I split fire. Now, if you could assign some of the dice roll and then after those have been done, assign the second group of dice- much like a separate unit, then I would think it has benefits, but assuming you have to state " there 3 guys shoot here and these 2 guys shoot here" I just can't see the advantage.

Thoughts?

[MagickalMemories]

What if you're using ML's and your targets are Units of Ork Boyz that just dumped out of trukks you blew up?
Would you really want to waste 5 ML's on 12 Orks with 6+ saves?

I think Split FIre is valuable to have as an option, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have to use it every round.

Also, there will be times when you have TWO priority targets and only 1 unit to take them down with it. If it's a "Kill or be killed" situation, the risk might be worth the reward.

Eric

[Brian Adair]

MM,

I guess my first response would be, you are space wolves, why are you shooting orks on foot with ML- you bolter them or just ignore them and kill them with counter charge if their numbers are small enough. ML long fangs are one of the few long fang anti tank options you have as a space wolf player they should be shooting at tanks. If there are no tanks on the board, you drop the small templates on whole units, hoping to force a morale check but realistically 5 str 4 templates aren't going to do a heck of alot against a cany opponent.

If you have 2 high priority targets you shoot at one and know odds are on your side to neutralize one- that is what I am saying as if you shoot at both, unless you are REALLY luck, you do nothing to either of them. I guess if it is the last turn and you need to get lucky-go ahead and split fire, but on a normal round of shooting, you put your money on the odds.

One of the only examples of split fire I would consider is dropping Logan with 5 multimeltas and shooting 3 at one vehicle and 2 at another (only if they were at half range however).

In essence with all the other special abilities available to other units and armies, I would say the split fire rule is extremely situational unless you are mixing/matching heavy weapons - which with the cost of ML and the strengths of the SW army, there really isn't much incentive to go with any other weapons.

Just my two cents, I am really curious on how others weigh in.

[Norseman]

Split fire gives you the ability to run 2 lascannon and 3 Heavy bolters. When you are running just one squad of LF. Or if you are running a few MM and Las cannons where you are hitting the close target with the MM and the far target with the Lascannons. Useful but not mind blowing.

[MagickalMemories]

Hypothetical situation. Granted, it's not going to be an "every game" situation but, hopefully, it should show you one of the reasons it' valuable.
It goes back to my vehicle question from earlier.

Bottom of turn 7. Your opponent has 1 unchallenged objective.
You're sitting on two.
He has vehicles parked on both of yours. You have 1 partial squad on each.
He's winning.
He moved both of his vehicles 12" to get there so, in assault, you're hitting them on 6's.
You can aim for ONE and expect a draw or aim for TWO and go "all or nothing" for the win.

Like I said, splitting your fire isn't going to be in regular usage, but I wouldn't call it meaningless. I'd LOVE my SM & CSM heavies to get that!


Eric

[Dakkar98]

For an extra 63 points you can add a Wolf Guard (18) in Terminator(+15) Armor with a cyclone missile launcher(+30) to the squad and now you have 7 missile shots to split every turn.
Granted for 2 points more you could field a 3 man Long Fang squad(45) with 2 additional missile launchers(+20).
The extra squad option allows you to bat clean up for the previous squad's split fire.

[EZ mac]

I've seen squads be 5missles, a term guard with cyclone and a rune preist with the st7 d6 shots

It gives 7missles and 3-4 autocannon shots at 2 targets and you can do 3 of these units pritty easy (with enough wolfguard)


Pluss think of this rule as a great way to get people out of rhinos, I mean u target 2 targets with st 8 and have a decent chance to get it to stop instead of just 1.

And if u do not like the rule just use your pups as a "hairy marine chapter".

[Brian Adair]

I think when you start adding the rune priest and cyclone WG, now the unit is expensive and worth every shot your opponent can throw into it (and let's face it, the utility of the unit drops off real fast once they take casualties and since they are standard marines, it happens every third wound on average), whereas for the same points as the rune priest and cyclone WG you can have 2 squads of 5 with ML, have more wounds, more ML and an additional squad that needs to be targetted.

@MM- I agree, but geez, if no one has inflicted a wound on your longs fangs through 7 turns- they must have been whiffing all game (in which case, go for the draw) and thus presented no threat to your opponent, or you haven't rolled less than a 3 all game for them. I see what you are saying, but I can't see that scenario playing out too often, by late in the game your squad has probably been whittled down to 1-2 LF, in which case they are targetting the same unit.

@EZ- I am not complaining, SW are my only painted army and I have been into them since 1990, I am just commenting that I have never seen the benefit of splitting fire other than having different heavy weapons in the squad. In the previous codex it was more useful as there might have been more of an incentive to take heavy bolters but as it stands now, I really don't see beating the 5 ML squad in terms of what you get for the price.

@Dakkar- I don't disagree with the thought process, I would just never run that many points in my Long Fang unit- I would much rather take the Cyclone ML WG and run him in the unit of GH that sits on an objective. I am actually running 2- 5 man squads of GH with plasmaguns and the cyclone WG with combiplasma. Lots of ablative wounds, the unit can move and shoot the ML shots, or stay still and shoot 2 str 8 and 2 str 7 shots. Not that this is the optimal way of doing things but I kind of like it.

[EZ mac]

Yes taking the rune preist, wg, and 5 missile is expensive... About 300 ish points (115ish for the rune preist, 63? For the wg and about 150 or something (don't play pups)) but figure if someone shot a ap 3 shot while u are in the open, guess who catches it? The termy. Yes it will not happen all tge time but it's still neat to have a random 2+ save in a unit.

Also u should consider taking a las/plas back with one (or 3) of these units. It can normally out shoot almost anything.

I personaly would rather do the full on twolves army myself if I ever played pups.

[Brian Adair]

EZ- I am not really sold on the twolves- granted, I can't say that I am the most experienced player out there but there seems to be several problems with a twolf list-

First, they are expensive in numbers (which you need if you are designing a list around them), which leaves few points for troops.
Second, they don't score, see point 1- few points for troops.
Third, yes they have fleet and are beasts, but they still are fairly slow- meaning if you opponent is smart you can't assault until turn 3.
Fourth, they cost the same as 10 GH with a wolfguard in a rhino (I am assuming 5 of the TW), and have the same amount of wounds- yes you can use wound allocation to your benefit, but the GH aren't taking casualties in the rhino, and the TW can't shoot or again, take objectives and they actually don't do a ton of damage, 5 of them on the charge kills around 6 marines- 10 blood claws with a wolf priest kill more marines on a charge and of course can take an objective.

Again, I am not saying they aren't good, but they do seem to be lacking in some departments. I do want to try a single unit with an HQ and more likely a few Iron Priests on them with some cyber wolves.

[Ironhide]

Having the ability to split-fire is very useful, if just for the psychological effect it has on your opponent. Adding a WG in TDA w/ a CML and a Storm Shield is a great way to make a LF pack more killy and survivable. Not a waste of points.

[don_mondo]

hey Brian.

I wouldn't say it's meaningless, but it can be situationally useless. It's an option, like deciding to combat squad or merge IG squads, that might or might not be useful.

[Brian Adair]

@Ironhide: I also thought about inserting a WG into the LF unit, but with the Cyclone and SS I think you are paying almost 100 pts to "protect" a 140 pt investment. Typically you would put the LF in some terrain if possible so they should get a 4+ cover save, having one 2+ armor save and a 5+invul doesn't seem like a worthwhile investment (at least to me)- I would rather take a second unit of LF and toss out 10 shots on the first turn.

@Don: Yeah I agree- I just think they should have made the rule a bit better. I just want to make sure I understand the rule correctly. Which one is correct?

I have 5 ML- on my turn, I state I am going to split fire and group x is going to shoot at target 1- I roll my dice and allocate any damage. I now turn to group y and announce that they are going to shoot at target 2- or if I whiffed back to target 1.

I have 5 ML- on my turn, I state I am going to split fire and announce group x is going to shoot at target 1 and group y is going to shoot at target 2. I then roll for each group individually.

Obviously the benefits of the first system is if you whiff with the first group of MLs, you can allocate the other group to the same target.

[EVIL INC]

Split fire is great. It allows you to shoot at and take out multiple units/targets. Dont tell me you have hnever had a unit of devs with las cannons where the first las cannon shot took out a rhino and was left frustrated at having 3 las cannon shots wasted. With split fire, those shots are not always wasted and thats just one example of how usefull it it can be in a battle.

[EZ mac]

Split fire is just like machine spirit, you choose target(s) then roll for damage and effects. So it's your SECOND example.