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any you guys use the might ghasghkull? I generally don't use any special charaters, just because of their point cost. At 225 thats really expensive for me. He's almost running the same price as a land raider and i have a hard time paying for that. I know, I'm cheap. but any of you ork players out there or folks that play against ork offent and have ran into him, Is he worth the 225 points he cost. If so what kind of unit do you run him in. some mega nobs another pricey unit? damn im so cheap.

Depends on your point limit.
At 1000, avoid him.
At 1500... you really have to think about it.
At 1750 and above, he can be a real asset. Read his special rules again. He's tough. VERY good, if he fits your list.


Eric

what kind of unit would you throw him in, some nobz or just bunch of boyz

Depends on how you're using him.
Remember that the whole unit moves as the slowest model. So, if you're putting him in with boys, you have a whole unit of boys potentially crawling across the field with him. Put him in a trukk, and that trukk WILL get blown up, making him a foot slogger.
So, in that respect, he's better in a Battlewagon.
Personally, I like him in a unit of MegaArmored Nobz. Maybe 5 or 6 of them... in a Battlewagon.
They need cybork bodies, though, as theyre a fire magnet..

You could probably do the same with an 18 strong unit of Boyz or Ard Boys in the Wagon. Just make sure one of those is a Nob.

Eric

He's slow. Getting him into combat is a pain. Most players will simply avoid him.

1850 point game agaisnt marines take or leave

juggernought wrote:1850 point game agaisnt marines take or leave

He can be great for that.
Have you looked up his special rules? Especially for his Waaagh? VERY nice.
In that case, if I was going to play him, I'd do this:

Ghaz & 5 MegaNobz with cybork bodies
Battlewagon with RPJ, Ram & 2 Big Shootas (for "Weapon Destroyed" results)

or

Ghaz, 17 Ard Boyz & Nob with PK & Bosspole
Battlewagon with RPJ, Ram & 2 Big Shootas (for "Weapon Destroyed" results)

Give the Wagon a "bodyguard" of 2 trukks (1 per side) for cover saves, or put a Big Mek with PK, Bosspole & KFF in with him (with 'Ard Boyz, you'll have to drop a boy for this).

This is an expensive unit that would need to be used PROPERLY.
It needs to get STUCK IN. the Ard boys are best with a multi assault or against large units with decent (3+ or 4+) saves (avoid Termies and/or other whole units with T-hammers & Storm Shields). The best way to go is full bore (on a road, if possible, for the extra 6" move) at the enemy until they can get out, Waaagh (if needed) and Assault. The closer you can get them the better, considering Ghaz's limitation.
Since BWagon's are opened topped there's something you can do to minimize his risk of holding down the unit of Boyz. Deploy him first & announce he's leaving the unit (if he's close enough for an assault), then keep the rest of the unit 2"+ away from him (but close enough to assault) and assault separately. He'll get extra dice fot the assault and, if you screw up the roll, at least the Boyz will get into HtH.

It's a similar tactic with the Meganobz unit, but try to hit ONE large(ish), hard unit or 2 medium ones. You don't want to kill them on YOUR turn, you want to kill them on HIS turn. Avoid the aforementioned TH/SS Termies here, too, if possible.
The "leaving the unit" tactic can be done here, too, provided the unit is in range. In this case, it's better for Ghaz to leave them, since he'll get the extra die for assault.

Eric

I personally ignore "deathstar" units and a special character that costs that much, needs a big vehicle and that should be with another expensive unit screams too many points for one unit killen stuff.

I have also never actually seen any ork player in a turnament play with him (we avg 1850-2000pts) or at a con (2k), normally I see a combo of reg 'boss/ nobs in wagon/truck with force field or a 'boss on a bike just because they do the sameish for less points.

Try to get ur HQ total under %15 of your total points therabouts and u should be good (my general aim). Heck I spend 100pts on my 2k sm list for a basic librarian and that's it! More troop units = better for orks, ie mass bodies for da killin

But hey magic memories actually plays orks and I play chaos and sm so that's just my $.02...

No, EZ. You make some good points.
The comparison, though, isn't great. That's because the "big killin" with orks comes from the more expensive models (basically, anything that can get a Power Klaw LOL).
I don't play a LOT of tourneys, but I've played in them. Even won before. : )
The thing about Ghaz is that his Waaagh can be used at ANY time. That's important.
What? On your turn you shot up that unit that was going to charge you & killed 25%, including the Nob?
or
What do you mean, I "failed my pinning test?"

Okay. I Waaagh. All my units are fearless for the rest of your turn and my next turn. LOL get ready to get "stuck in."

Do *I* play him? Nope. Not typically.
I'm the kind that prefers a tricked out biker boss or two. LOL Maybe some biker Nobs (usually, 2x 6-strong units w/painboy). Sometimes, I play Wazdakka. He's worth the points. I lean more "Speed Freeks," typically. Trukk Boyz & bikers. I like to support that with a unit of 15 Lootas in a Battlewagon, sitting where it can be in cover. I like to drop a Big Mek with KFF & a bosspole in there, too.

With orks, there's a saying, "Boys before toys." It rings true, but not if you take it as unlaterable gospel. A Horde of Orks isn't going to handle a number of different units well (including Land Raiders). You really need to make certain you have some tricks up your sleeve for that. A unit of Meganobz will usually do that for you.

Just some thoughts.
There are MANY different effective Ork builds. Ghaz might not be your style. One of them will, though.


Eric

currious about a few things...

Arnt orks over 12 models fearless anyways? (thought that was there somewere)

orks with power claws are st 9 on the charge right? (furious charge+st

what does ghazghull's special rule actually say it does? Does it just let u fleet turn one and have fearless for a full turn?


A unit of ork nobs on bikes decked out with pclaws and a boss built to kill tanks should cost way less then Ghazz, nobs, wagon/truck as long as you don't over do the number of them and be as or more survivable.

I've just seen that orks win the giant fight because they have 30boys with the 1power claw fighting against a term assault squad just because they have da bodies to take da hit while a nob unit just doesn't survive as well and taking a 400-500 point unit to hit troop units and not the super unit which can cripple the army just isn't a great option. If the unit could get it's points back reliably from thunder hammer storm sheild termies then I think he would be worth it but as they don't against the same points spent on the termies, I do not believe he is worth it. Even if u stick him in a big boys unit I don't beleave I would ever take him.

Does the weird boy have something that affects waaag? If so I'd consider him if it's 1/4 the points.

EZ mac wrote:currious about a few things...

Arnt orks over 12 models fearless anyways? (thought that was there somewere)

Over 10. If there are 11+, they're fearless. Lower than that, their Ld is their unit size, or 7 (natural Ld), whichever's greater.
Once a unit hits 10 models, it starts becoming more & more precarious. Every model matters...
Hypothetically: A unit of 12 boys charges 10 Space marines.
Space marines attack first (Init. 4). They have 9 attacks & 2 PFist attacks. They hit on 4 (4.5 hits... say 5), then wound on 4. Two wounds. Boyz will probably not make that save (by odds), so your 12 boyz are now 10.

Nine Boyz attack (36 attacks) SM unit. Boys will hit on a 4 (18 hits), wound on a 4 (9 wounds). A unit of 10 SM will likely lose 2.5 models (say 3). On init 1, the Nob will squish 2 & the Sgt will squish 1.
Round 1: Orks kill 4, SM kill 3.
Wow. Huge, right?
If they don't hit average and lost, their Ld is now a 10 or below... and they have the Ld test penalty for how many wounds they lost by.
T-r-o-u-b-l-e.

If they win, they're attacking on I2 next round with a S3. Do that math. It hurts.
A unit of boys that doesn't win the 1st round of HtH has a LOW chance of winning round 2 with tougher foes. if they don't win Round 2, it's dismal for them.

EZ mac wrote:orks with power claws are st 9 on the charge right? (furious charge+st

Yep. That means they only have a 1/3 chance to do anything to AV14 (1/6 Glance, 1/6 Penetrate) on the charge.

EZ mac wrote:what does ghazghull's special rule actually say it does? Does it just let u fleet turn one and have fearless for a full turn?

Basically. Plus, it can be called at ANY time, even in your opponents turn (that's a big deal).

EZ mac wrote:A unit of ork nobs on bikes decked out with pclaws and a boss built to kill tanks should cost way less then Ghazz, nobs, wagon/truck as long as you don't over do the number of them and be as or more survivable.

Warboss on bike with Nobs on bike, the way I roll them, is 650 (5 Nobs & 1 Painboy).
Ghaz & 6 Megas (4 Kombi weapons for wound allocation) in a BWagon as per above (and added a Grot Rigger, just in case) is 600.
Ghaz, a tricked out KFF Mek and 17 Ard Boys (one tricked Nob) in a BWagon as above (and Grot Rigger) is 695. The B Mek's 145 of that.


The bike Nobs lose effectiveness, though, if you aren't presenting multiple targets to your opponent.
I'd do the Ghaz/Mek combo before the MegaNobs.

EZ mac wrote:I've just seen that orks win the giant fight because they have 30boys with the 1power claw fighting against a term assault squad just because they have da bodies to take da hit while a nob unit just doesn't survive as well and taking a 400-500 point unit to hit troop units and not the super unit which can cripple the army just isn't a great option. If the unit could get it's points back reliably from thunder hammer storm sheild termies then I think he would be worth it but as they don't against the same points spent on the termies, I do not believe he is worth it. Even if u stick him in a big boys unit I don't beleave I would ever take him.

That is true. A horde army does have that benefit/strength. Ghaz isn't really a "horde army" kind of fellow, though. He's too slow. Speed Freeks have to plan a very different fight, IMO. They can't bring 30 models to bear (from one unit) on one foe.
Honestly, though, Horde orks rarely do, either. My experience shows them at about 1/2 strength by the time they arrive, at best.

Can't blame you for not taking him, though. There *ARE* better options, IMO. I'm just saying that he IS a viable option in the right army.

EZ mac wrote:Does the weird boy have something that affects waaag? If so I'd consider him if it's 1/4 the points.

He can't "call" a Waaagh. Only a Warboss can do that. I don't know about any of his powers, though. One of them might do SOMETHING. Don't have the Dex handy.

Eric

not trying to dissagree about the Okness of ghaz just want to persuade that it's not quite worth the points To me

More 'just currious' questions:

How many boyz do u get for the cost of a 10man tact squad? The tact squad is about 200points so figure half of whatever the boys come out to because of the whole "getting shot thing". That's somthing to be taken into consideration for army selection.

The whole power claw strength thing was actually to be considered on the bikes vrs raiders (not best spot for them I know). In all honosty I honostly think that a good horde ork list could ignore the raider besides to just be used as a free assault jump for da boyz.

And the points for ghaz pluss nobs I figured it would be the bikers+ boss vrs mega armored nobs with ghaz not reg nobs (as that's what yall was talken about before I chimed in).



Anyway that's one of the nicer things about 5th Ed codecies... More good builds with less epicly op builds that a trained monkey could play. Can't wait for the necron and eldar to get redone so different lists can be played outta those armies.

EZ mac wrote:not trying to dissagree about the Okness of ghaz just want to persuade that it's not quite worth the points To me

More 'just currious' questions:

How many boyz do u get for the cost of a 10man tact squad? The tact squad is about 200points so figure half of whatever the boys come out to because of the whole "getting shot thing". That's somthing to be taken into consideration for army selection.

Well, I'm going off of the top of my head, here...
Boys are 6 points a piece. I forget what a Nob is, but I think it's about 15 points. PK & Bosspole run about 35 (??) points (total). I like to put heavy armor (4+ save) on my Nobs @ 5(-ish?) points.
A trukk runs 35 points (IIRC), and the important upgrades (ram & red paint job) are 25-30(ish?) more.
'Ard boys run 10 points each and the Nob's 20(??). Upgrades & trukk cost the same.
So, a unit of 11 trukk boys (no big shootas or rokkit launcha's) with a Nob in a Trukk is around 186 points?

That's totally off the top of my head (no codices or Army Builder at work). So, PLEASE, nobody eviscerate me for my inaccuracies. : )

EZ mac wrote:The whole power claw strength thing was actually to be considered on the bikes vrs raiders (not best spot for them I know). In all honosty I honostly think that a good horde ork list could ignore the raider besides to just be used as a free assault jump for da boyz.

Ignoring the raider depends on what's INSIDE of it. ; )

EZ mac wrote:And the points for ghaz pluss nobs I figured it would be the bikers+ boss vrs mega armored nobs with ghaz not reg nobs (as that's what yall was talken about before I chimed in).

I was just listing all the options and comparisons we'd discussed that came off the top of my head.

EZ mac wrote:Anyway that's one of the nicer things about 5th Ed codecies... More good builds with less epicly op builds that a trained monkey could play. Can't wait for the necron and eldar to get redone so different lists can be played outta those armies.

Although many would disagree with you, I'm not one of them (re: 5e codices). I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with DARK Eldar, myself. If they're good, they might just become my 4th army.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

EZ mac wrote:not trying to dissagree about the Okness of ghaz just want to persuade that it's not quite worth the points To me

More 'just currious' questions:

How many boyz do u get for the cost of a 10man tact squad? The tact squad is about 200points so figure half of whatever the boys come out to because of the whole "getting shot thing". That's somthing to be taken into consideration for army selection.

Well, I'm going off of the top of my head, here...
Boys are 6 points a piece. I forget what a Nob is, but I think it's about 15 points. PK & Bosspole run about 35 (??) points (total). I like to put heavy armor (4+ save) on my Nobs @ 5(-ish?) points.
A trukk runs 35 points (IIRC), and the important upgrades (ram & red paint job) are 25-30(ish?) more.
'Ard boys run 10 points each and the Nob's 20(??). Upgrades & trukk cost the same.
So, a unit of 11 trukk boys (no big shootas or rokkit launcha's) with a Nob in a Trukk is around 186 points?

Eric

Highlight by me.

You don't take wrecking balls on your trukks!? I never leave home w/o them! I think it's great having a melee attack for your VEHICLE! Usually I can run at least one of my trukks long enough to get it along/behind an enemy tank and smack the heck out of it's side/rear armor. Heck, even just busting up a rhino is totally worth the points. Having a wrecking ball smack a carnifex in the head is pretty funny, too. (Funny, but suicidal.) For 10pts. you essentially turn your trukk into a fast moving, mini-dreadnaught.

p.s. re: the original topic. I don't care for Ghaz. If I'm going to pay a metric crap ton for something it's probably going to be nob bikerz. I'd rather spread the points around a bit instead of dumping them all on Ghaz.

HarlequinZero wrote:
You don't take wrecking balls on your trukks!? I never leave home w/o them! I think it's great having a melee attack for your VEHICLE! Usually I can run at least one of my trukks long enough to get it along/behind an enemy tank and smack the heck out of it's side/rear armor. Heck, even just busting up a rhino is totally worth the points. Having a wrecking ball smack a carnifex in the head is pretty funny, too. (Funny, but suicidal.) For 10pts. you essentially turn your trukk into a fast moving, mini-dreadnaught.

I find that the wrecking balls are nice, but TOO expensive. I would rather run 4 trukks than 3 with a wrecking ball. I also am currently in a meta with a LOT of IG and Tau and would rather try to get boyz or nobs across into HtH faster.. so I am toying with a 6 Trukk troop concept just to try to survive the incoming Anti T.. and I don't want to up my trukks point by another 25% if I don't have to..