Bartertown.com

Hello all,

I really just had a question mainly aiming to the veteran traders who have seen the ups and down of online trading. I just had a trade which seemed to be going good, but then I receive a distressing PM. I had received my item without issue but the item I sent out did not reach the person (not completely).

I had sent out a bunch of magazines along with some figures and some 40k razorwire. The package was opened for inspection by usps, and when the package was picked up, the guy I sent it to only got 2 of the 11 magazines I sent and no figures and no razorwire. So pretty much 90% of the trade never got to him.

My guess is that the metal figures along with a coiled up wire may have looked suspect, and therefore needed closer inspection. Thats part is fine I suppose, but either they didnt put it all back in or they did not reseal the package properly, because the package pretty much came to him empty. Its not his fault, nor was it my own.

So my question is how do I balance out this trade? I feel guilty that he got the short end of the stick, and I'd be pretty mad if it happened to me. If could resend him more of the same thing I would. But he was specific in what he needed in the trade, and I have no copies of the same mags, and im cleared out of the figures and razorwire that he needed.

If anything similar has happened to you, I'd like to know how you guys resolved the issue and came to a conclusion. I feel partly responsible for making sure he's happy about the final result, and I dont want the trade to turn sour because of circumstances out of either of our control.

Let me know what BT thinks about this mess....

-Ashi

Did the package have any insurance on it? Alot of postage types have it automatically. If so you can make a claim and give your trade partner the settlement.

Hey Ashi!

A couple of quick questions:

Did you purchase insurance?

Can you prove it was opened and inspected by a USPS employee, official or inspector wihout a doubt?


Insurance will cover any loss, but you can plan on it taking some time. You'll need your receiver's info and possibly a statement from him or her at their PO.

If you can PROVE that the box was opened by USPS or in one of their facilities, you may have a chance to get some reimbursement from the PO.

However, there are some better judges here on BT that can tell you what the USPS can or will do for you... they work there .

_____________________________________

I would offer the reciever one of three things:

a) an immediate cash payment via paypal to cover the monetary value (which you'll have to both agree upon) of the trade, or
b) see if you can come to an agreement to send something else that the receiver is interested in. Lastly...
c) ship his items back and ask that he reship what he received of your items.


Good luck!
Rick

In addition, don't they mark it that they opened it?

yes,

They stamped that it was "opened for inspection" and then theirs another stamp that says it was "received unsealed". I have the receipt for it as well as the confirmation number slip. The package went from my USPS directly to a PO box. So somewhere in between is when it happened. I dont think it had insurance on it, should it say it somewhere?

-Ashi

I dont think it had insurance on it, should it say it somewhere?

No, there is a separate form to fill out (and pay for) to get insurance on your items. I have no idea if you have any recourse with USPS. I doubt that they will help you out. You will probably have to come to some sort of gentleman's agreement with your trade partner. Maybe you can make up for half of what was lost in value. Has your trade partner had anything to say about a solution?

Karl

This might seem an odd question, but what shipping method did you use? Media mail, first class, priority?

After extensive discussion with my USPS, I found out priority mail and first class are not subject to normal inspections. Media mail, however, is. And the limits on what you can send as media are pretty strict. First of all, the minis and razor wire are strictly out. Depending on what the magazines were, they might not count either. Not to toss out a scare here, but if you shipped these things by media mail, you could very well end up fined by the USPS. Just a heads up.

First: If you sent via USPS Media Mail, and the items inside didn't qualify, the recipient (I think) or you would've received a bill for the difference in shipping due. USPS wouldn't have confiscated magazines and razorwire... unless it was REAL razorwire and shild-pron magazines or something... then, I'm not sure HOW they'd handle it.

Second: Ask your trade partner to provide pictures of the box with those stamps. Three or 4 pictures should be fine; one of the box from about 3' away, one pic of each stamp, and one close up of the address on the box. This way, you'll have proof you need to show it was opened, etc. Also (and I'm making NO accusations, just covering my bases), it ensures taht the recipient isn't making up stories to con you (Again... I'm just saying...).

Third: Have the recipient WEIGH the box and contents. Preferably on a USPS scale & provide you with the weight. The weight is on your receipt. Note the discrepancy between the two. This will be your proof that SOMETHING was in the box, more than those 2 magazines (your proof that YOU are not full of crap).

Fourth: This is one of the reasons we insure our parcels. You're responsible for getting the package to him. Until he receives it, the box is YOUR responsibility.

Fifth: Wait for kturock. He'll post something in here, I'm certain. I have a feeling, though, that you're SOL. Be prepared for him to make a statement about something not being worth much to you if you won't pay for the insurance on it. ; )

@kturock... be nice to the guy.

Eric

I had the same thing happen to me awhile back. I bought some stuff from a trader on here, and received none of the models, just the cards for the models in the box. I went back and forth with the USPS, and it all came down to not having bought insurance on the package. Needless to say, the seller and myself worked out an agreement regarding what to do, and we both learned a big lesson on the importance of insurance in shipping stuff.

I hope you have better luck than we did.

--Russ

I'll wait for kturok to chime in here, but it sounds to me that if it was opened for inspection by USPS, and then it was found that magazines are missing by the reciever, then they would have to reimburse you regardless if you had insurance. Kinda goes like this IMO: They opened it, items are missing, it is on USPS to prove they didn't misplace some of the items in the package upon repackaging.

Here's some info from the USPS website:

USPS wrote:Content (373.2.0)

Generally used for books (at least eight pages), film (16 mm or narrower), printed music, printed test materials, video and sound recordings, playscripts, printed educational charts, loose-leaf pages and binders consisting of medical information, and computer-readable media. Sound recordings may include incidental announcements of recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Books may contain no advertising other than incidental announcements of other books.

As an FYI, comic books used to not be eligible for media rate because of the ads in them.

USPS wrote:Content (373.2.0)

Books may contain no advertising other than incidental announcements of other books.

Here's where the magazines have problems.

Esp. White Dwarf being one big advert.

I'm glad this thread was started because, like most 'awesome' threads, I learned something very valuable.

I'm sorry -=Ashigaru=- that you may have lost out on this trade. What's great (among many other things) about Bartertown is that we all get to contribute and/or learn from what we read here. I've been a cheap-scate, honestly, and have sent many-a-items without insurance because the buyer/trader never requested it, probably a roll-over from my eBay (FEEbay) days; however, there have been very solid arguments made here as to why I should -on my end- insure the packages anyway regardless of what my buyer/trader requests.

I hope you can achieve an amicable outcome with your trader, and I am glad to read the arguments made here so that I can improve my own trading practices.

No matter the outcome, in my opinion, you should always strive to make the buyer/trader happy if you truly believe they aren't trying to scam you (such as having said pics of "empty" packages). Sure, it may cost you a few bucks (emphasis on the 'few') up front, but in the long run you build a most solid reputation here, and that reputation just CANNOT be purchased at any cost (and trust me - many have tried - just read some of the bad trader forums). Here on Bartertown, the reputations and references are earned despite feedback somewhere else.

Good luck -=Ashigaru=- in your dealings with the USPS and your 'trader'. I truly hope that you stick it out here and become a part of this most awesome community; you are bound to make some super cool friends here as I have done.

I am truly sorry that you have encountered this scenario so close to your start up here, but I would like to welcome you to Bartertown none-the-less.

WELCOME TO BARTERTOWN!!

Cheers,
Rik

Well, it seems most everyone covered everything I would have said.

Ask for pics of the stamps [not postage] on the box, saying opened for inspection.

ALL MAIL IS SUBJECT TO INSPECTION!

I've seen an express bag [soft envelope] held for inspectors. It contained marijauana [sp?].
I've seen a box, sent priorty rot opened that contained a 'fresh' bear cub skin.[phwew]
I've seen another box rot open, sent priority, get inspected. After the bear cub skin incident. It contained a thawed out ham.] [phwew].

Media mail, if it sounds, smells or feels , 'suspisious', will get opened. Also, so will boxes that look like they were/are priority mail boxes that are repainted, masked or taped over, or flipped inside out. [then you'll get charged priority mail rate.] Same with items that aren't media that is sent media rate. It'll get forwarded postage due. I fit's refused, then it's returned, postage due. Yes, you actually have to pay to get your own stuff back. And then pay again to remail it. {same with parcel post. If it's refused, or returned to sender for any reason. If it's forwarded, it goes forward, postage due.} Parcel post, which is media is a sub-class of, also costs to get forwarded or returned. {Basiclly, parcel post, is like a 'one-way' ticket. One address, one time for the rate. Anywhere else costs.}

OK back on to topic. If you didn't pay for insurance, no matter who or how it got damaged, you're SoL. Basiclly, the only way mail gets damaged, is by a USPS representive; machine or person. Clerk, letter carrier, airline luggage handler, or machine; it's a representive, and the only ones/way mail gets damaged.

If it's not the $2-3 for insurance, it's not worth crying or compalining about when it gets lost or damaged.

When USPS opens a box, it reseals it with everything back inside. Now if could have been inspected, then broken open afterwards.
If no insurance, SoL.


SO, if you sent it media rate, be glad it didn't go postage due, or returned postage due; with or without contents.

If it's not a scam, then you learned to always get insurance, unless you don't care about losing what's inside. {which is basiclly what happened.}

I'm sure you're right and as always I really appreciate your input and knowledge but I have to say that is a big bag a crap policy. Obviously I'm not blaming the messenger but if the USPS can't be held responible for flaws in their service what good are they?? This would be like a restaraunt charging you one price on the menu but extra if you want it to taste decent and not make you sick. If you don't pay the extra you're just SoL.
I understand that they can't complete every singe delivery with no accidents or loss but that's not what happened here. They opened it and then half of it got lost somehow. They should be help resonsible.