How can GW do this???

[Datadep5]

Here's something you're missing.

Say that every year GW gets 200 new people to play any of their games. Now this number, year after year, will stay the same, and that the total number of people will increase. After 5 years there are 1000 people playing.

Now say 50 people a year stop buying straight from GW. This will lose them some revenue depening on how the models were aquired. After 5 years that's 250 people not buying straight from GW. GW will lose either all profit, or some profit.

MM said it best.

[JohnHwangBT]

I've basically stopped buying from GW, originally because I had too much unbuilt, unpainted stuff, now because I have "enough" built / painted stuff.

For the last couple years, the only money GW gets from me is for Bitz and individual sprues that would cost me more if I were to buy the whole model or boxed set. The rest is all trades and swaps, with occasional purchases from Internet discounters to fill out armies. Thanks, BT!

@Eldarfreak: The Wizards lawsuit was for trade secrets, and is very different from what BWB is doing. It's the difference between releasing the formula for Coke and and showing a photo of a Coke can.

As for buying ethics, if you have a good local store that you *play* at, support them. Otherwise, go Internet!

[ancientsociety]

I was wondering when the GW fanbois were going to chime in...."GW can do no wrong! They ARE mini wargaming, all other companies are c***!"

Also, something that hasn't been brought up yet is GW's horrible reputation of abandoning EVERY game they produce that isn't WFB, 40K, LOTR.

Blood Bowl? Abandoned.
Epic? Abandoned.
Warmaster? Abandoned.
Necromunda (my favorite game, the game that got me "hooked", and IMO v.1 is a masterpiece of skirmish wargaming)? Abandoned.
Gorkamorka? Abandoned.
Mordheim? Abandoned.
Inquisitor? Abandoned.

What do all of these games have in common? Simple - you don't have to buy TONS of minis to play or "update" your collection whenever a new codex/ruleset is released. Hence, GW's profit margin on these games is minimal.

Well, makes sense, you say. But the problem is that these games develop a fanbase. When that fanbase is suddenly dropped, with little or no support, no updates, and no new models (or old models in the case of GWUK & Inquisitor), it's readily apparent to anyone with half a brain, that, as a fan, you do not matter if you don't spend $X every month on GW product.

When you alienate veteran gamers (and consumers) with greedy business practices, you inevitably breed bad blood (not to mention a bad reputation). Sure, you MAY be able to attract 200 new kids every month, but if you can't keep those kids coming back and being loyal to your brand, then you have a problem.

[Warmonger]

Battlefleet Gothic: Abandoned.
Aeronautica Imerialis: GW isn't even touching this one, it's all Specialist Games finding a new use for Epic models.

I am only just now coming back from a nine month gaming hiatus. Boy the amount of money I had to spend on other things in that time was phenomenal. heh. Now I see GW is up to their same self defeating stupidity. Time to once again analyze other games out there that care about their players as a means to keep their bottom line up....

[mrrshann618]

it is only a matter of time till LotR gets dumped. Once people forget about the moves after a bit it will be added to your list.

Necromunda Got me started on 40k. Great game Small anough to get several games in, small enough to build as many gangs as you really wanted to whatever size you really wanted, It offered a ton of modling possibilites to those who wanted to try.

Now I barely can get 2 games an afternoon while playing 40k. EVERYONE want these massive armies that barely fit on a 4x6 tables. Tournaments are growing bigger and bigger so you HAVE to spend more and more
But then again that is every hobby lately.

Dont forget that GW has a habbit of re-releaseing a game then abandoning it all oaver again (bloodbowl, epic, I tink Necromunda is on it's 3rd incarnation)

[Datadep5]

Time to once again analyze other games out there that care about their players as a means to keep their bottom line up....

See there's a problem. I've spent so much money getting into this hobby that I don't want to just drop it because prices increas, GW being <not smart>, etc... Granted it would be nice to find another game, but I'm really a fan of GW models.

[Alsiaie]

LOTR can't be dumped. GW has a signed contract with New Line Cinema that's too big to buy out. I believe the contract was for ten years(Bare minimum). LOTR was the second biggest mistake GW made. They're forced to constantly push out new models for a crappy game rule set. LOTR is probably costing them more money than what they get back from LOTR sales and there's nothing they can do about it. Don't forget that all LOTR miniature profits get split between New Line and GW Corp.

[Warmonger]

See there's a problem. I've spent so much money getting into this hobby that I don't want to just drop it because prices increas, GW being <not smart>, etc... Granted it would be nice to find another game, but I'm really a fan of GW models.

I'm not planning on dropping it entirely. I have way too many models to be able to do that without taking a major loss. But I -can- start trading them off for another system, or selling them to finance something else. I have more armies than I realistically have time to assemble/paint/play. I just have to decide on which ones to keep, and then get to work eliminating my stock....

[nitsky416]

You guys make good points but I find it very interesting that if you go to Amazon.com and search for "Games Workshop" you get a bunch of hits at various discount levels, using a shopping cart system. It was my understanding that both of these are verboten under their new rules for online sales. It cracks me up how they'll go after some little guys but if they really had a leg to stand on they'd attack the big boys like Amazon and Ebay with the same fervor. They obviously know they'd probably lose a court case so they look the other way if they think you'll actually stand up to them. Could you really see the legal department at Amazon getting a Cease and Desist order from GW. They'd laugh so hard they pee themselves!!!

It's the same thing with the RIAA and MPAA making suits in bulk against college students and grandparents of children who use filesharing. It's easier to go after people who have a high debt-to-income ratio and are desperate to settle, then say, someone who had the money to mount a good legal defense.

QFT. The RIAA forced a mass warning @ Purdue last week, actually. Story here.

[Linrandir]

LOTR can't be dumped. GW has a signed contract with New Line Cinema that's too big to buy out. I believe the contract was for ten years(Bare minimum). LOTR was the second biggest mistake GW made. They're forced to constantly push out new models for a crappy game rule set. LOTR is probably costing them more money than what they get back from LOTR sales and there's nothing they can do about it. Don't forget that all LOTR miniature profits get split between New Line and GW Corp.

I don't think it was New Line, but I could be mistaken. I think they signed the contract with the entity that administrates Tolkien's estate and accordant intellectual properties. I think the contract was for five years after the release of the final movie with an option for renewal if someone decided to do the Hobbit (which they are and will suck because Peter Jackson and WETA have been cut from the project).
Also, read their annual report. They're blaming LOTR for the "bubble bursting" and why their sales are so far into the crapper it's not funny.


@Nitsky:
The RIAA are bullies, plain and simple. But I won't go there.

[Warmonger]

Nah, it was New Line. Hence the New Line logo on a small corner of all the boxes.

[ohioguy]

What ancientsociety said:

I was wondering when the GW fanbois were going to chime in...."GW can do no wrong! They ARE mini wargaming, all other companies are c***!"

Also, something that hasn't been brought up yet is GW's horrible reputation of abandoning EVERY game they produce that isn't WFB, 40K, LOTR.

Blood Bowl? Abandoned.
Epic? Abandoned.
Warmaster? Abandoned.
Necromunda (my favorite game, the game that got me "hooked", and IMO v.1 is a masterpiece of skirmish wargaming)? Abandoned.
Gorkamorka? Abandoned.
Mordheim? Abandoned.
Inquisitor? Abandoned.

What do all of these games have in common? Simple - you don't have to buy TONS of minis to play or "update" your collection whenever a new codex/ruleset is released. Hence, GW's profit margin on these games is minimal.

Well, makes sense, you say. But the problem is that these games develop a fanbase. When that fanbase is suddenly dropped, with little or no support, no updates, and no new models (or old models in the case of GWUK & Inquisitor), it's readily apparent to anyone with half a brain, that, as a fan, you do not matter if you don't spend $X every month on GW product.

When you alienate veteran gamers (and consumers) with greedy business practices, you inevitably breed bad blood (not to mention a bad reputation). Sure, you MAY be able to attract 200 new kids every month, but if you can't keep those kids coming back and being loyal to your brand, then you have a problem.

For once I agree with him

[insidius]

Hate the company all you want, but the simple fact is that if enough people stop buying from GW, GW will stop making miniatures.

You think any of us wants that?

I personally don't like the company's business ethic, but I can understand why they do what they try to do. That said, I only buy from GW when all other resources have been exhausted, because I value small businesses more than I do GW.

I'm not ready to see WH40K die, though.

[ancientsociety]

Insidius: No, I don't think any of us want any miniature company to go out of business, even GW. But, just because people stop buying their minis, doesn't mean they'll automatically go OOB.

They're a publicly traded company. If their profits started to tank, the shareholders would have the top executives' heads. Either there would be a serious review of their current business practices (sorely needed) and/or the execs would receive their walking papers (probably also not a bad thing). If neither of those things happened, then it's quite likely GW would go into bankruptcy and a lot of restructuring would be done (also probably a good thing). If things still didn't change after that point, then GW would be no more (and IMO, if they hadn't changed anything @ that point, they deserve to go OOB).

So, the net effect of consumers buying less product, could be a very good thing...or a bad thing. Either way, if the company didn't learn from its mistakes, then they have no one to blame but themselves.


Ohioguy: Isn't it a BT rule that no one can ever agree with me?...

[EldarFREAK]

GW is NOT going to go out of business. When someone starts the game, they buy from GW!!! You guys are not getting that GW makes more then just models. They do the paint, brushes, tournys, Forgeworld. You cant cut it off at all of its many heads. its like a hydra!