GW bootlegs- what to do?

[starslayer]

Here is his original message:

When I opened up the package and examined the Hobgoblins I bought from you, I noticed three things. First they are physically smaller that the original Chaos Dwarf Hobgoblins I compared them to. Second, whatever they were made out of is a much softer metal than any of the other Games Workshop products I purchased. Third, there are double mold lines on the head and shoulder of the hobgoblin trumpeter. These three things are tell-tale signs of recast or counterfeit miniatures. I would like to arrange a refund through paypal. I understand you don't accept refunds but I am going to try to resolve this through you first. I am willing to pay for shipping to send them back to you just as long as you refund the bid price. Thanks.

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My thoughts:

I thought Sneaky Gits were smaller than Hobgoblin Warriors, but I could be wrong.

The metal seemed silvery, but I have gotten GW stuff that seemed brighter or duller.

Mold lines? I get new stuff from GW with flash & mold lines.

I saw some other auctions of Hobgoblins with pics & they seem the same as the ones I had. Same size/color,etc.

[starslayer]

Here is the "proof" :



http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... ealone.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... ber8-1.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber7.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber5.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber4.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber9.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber8.jpg

[starslayer]

Im just not seeing it. Mold lines/flash are not proof of a recast. One figure has supposed "double mold lines". If they are all recasts , would more than 1 figure in 34 have double mold lines?? I get new figures from GW that have flash & mold lines. I dont see any size difference at all.He says my figures are smaller- look in the last link- my fig seems same size or bigger. It depends on angle of pic. I get new figures from GW that sometimes have small parts that did not mold correctly(weapons, feet,etc.) That just happens sometimes.
Sorry- Im not buying his story.

[imp522]

I agree with you StarSlayer I'm not seeing it either. Where he says they are smaller honestly with out having them set against a ruler and either both based or unbased you can't tell. It can just be the angle.
Double mold lines, sure it's a classic example of recasting but I've gotten double mold lines from GW before so it's not a 100% guarantee that they are recast.

The withered foot, looks like a regular miscast to me.
More mold lines, he does realize metal models usually have them
rounder head/hat, now thats just being silly IMO.

I think he has buyer remorse, I wouldn't give in to him.

[mrrshann618]

As for the really bad miscasts, such as the excessive flash and withered foot. Those type of problem happen with really old molds. I had a bunch of the old Fantasy tomb guard/armored skeletons (like 10 years ago) where they looked nearly the same. Bad mold lines, mishapen limbs (I had to jam a piece of plastic into one of the feet and then shape it for it to look right)

I agree with im. His are already based with putty, there are tons of possible discrepancies (no standard of hight) that are just unkown. Silvery means nothing. I've gotten brilliant silver straight from a GW blister, as well as, dull grey/pockmarked. The luster all depends on the mix (GW metals are an alloy, no longer fully pewter or fully lead).

I'm not discouting the possibilities. Just that I've seen things such as this in even their plastics. I purchased a SM Battle company and I had horrendus casts with those molds. I had to resent for 7 Rhino sprues due to them being so miscast they were roughly 25% useless

[starslayer]

Honestly, if he had proof- I would give a refund. But i just dont see it. I did see some cheaper Hobgoblin auctions recently though.....

If you are a long time buyer of GW- we have all gotten bad/miscast figs. And I simply see no "size difference". In the last pic mine seems the same size to me.

[getupandgo]

Feebay buyers are not always known to be the most honest individuals.

This is my thought exactly.

I sold some forgeworld stuff (I believe on ebay, it was a while ago), and the guy claimed that he used to work for GW, and that the resin release spray used wasn't the same, and demanded a refund. I told him to provide me proof of that, and I never heard back from him.

[Ironhide]

Doesn't look fake to me. I've gotten mold lines worse than that on some of my dwarfs before.

[usernamesareannoying]

another thought.
how do you know hes not trying to pawn of fakes he had and is afraid to use back on to you?
do you recognize the minis that hes saying are yours as the ones you sent him?

personally id tell him sorry... cant help you.

[getupandgo]

In this picture:

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff32 ... umber4.jpg

You can clearly tell that the size discrepancy is due to the putty that he is using to base "his" miniatures.

That said; even though I don't think he has a leg to stand on, he IS willing to pay for return shipping. So unless the auction was for a lot of money, and you think he's just having buyer's remorse, I'd just let him send them back and avoid him causing any more problems... Then block him as a bidder and don't ever deal with him again.

That's how I would handle it.

[starslayer]

Yeah, but Im out Ebay fees, posting fees, & my shipping. I dont beleive him. I dont plan to sell on Ebay often anyway, so let him do what he needs to do.

[getupandgo]

Yeah, but Im out Ebay fees, posting fees, & my shipping. I dont beleive him. I dont plan to sell on Ebay often anyway, so let him do what he needs to do.

Ah, that's true.

Tell him that if he covers your fees that you'll let him return them. He'll probably turn that down, but at that point, he can't say you didn't give him the chance.

[starslayer]

The guy is a liar.

Here is his story:

"After I paid for these from the seller, they arrived in the mail with the sneaky gits. I opened them up, examined them, compared them to my own Games Workshop Hobgoblin Warriers that were originally new in package and the quality was terrible. There were irregular mold lines all around them. There was pitting on some of the axes. They were smaller than my originals. The metal was a different color and density than that of the originals. The musician had double mold lines on his head and shoulder. The feet on on of the warriors hadn't even filled out on the mold. I am very dissatisfied with the quality of this figures and after messaging him while the auction was live asking him specifically about the quality of the champion in the unit, I feel that they were falsely represented as authentic when they really look like counterfeits. The originals are also copyrighted by Games Workshop and I feel like I am buying illegal products."



I posted this in reply to his accusations:

"The items were pictured & accurately described. The auction said "no refunds". The items are not fakes or recasts- they are originals. The items are metal figures. During the casting process there are sometimes imperfections, mold-lines,etc. This happens. I have bought & used these type of figures for over 20 years. I even posted the pictures the buyer provided on a Gaming Forum for others to comment on, to get an unbiased opinion. Not a single reply agreed they were "recasts/fakes". All agreed they were genuine. The pictures the buyer showed were taken at a certain angle in an attempt to make the items seem larger or smaller. In one picture, the figure I sold him seems a bit larger, the other picture it seems a bit smaller. It depends on the angle of the camera. I feel this is "buyers remorse" and now he has changed his mind. There have been other cheaper auctions for similar items on Ebay recently, and I think the buyer wants to (or has) buy those at a lesser price."

[starslayer]

They sided with him. My first time selling on Ebay and it will be my last. Im closing my account & never looking back.

Dear Chad,

Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to item # 120558349154. When a
customer claims their item arrived differently than it was described in
the listing it can create a very frustrating experience. I can certainly
appreciate your concern in this matter.

I understand you are concerned that the item your customer has received
is in the same condition it out was sent out in. I want to assure you
that we make a great effort to prevent what we call ?buyers remorse?.
Upon receipt of this claim, I have reviewed several factors before
taking any action. In your specific case I reviewed the listing, the
photos of the item, and communication between yourself and your buyer.
After doing so, I have concluded that the best course of action is for
me to instruct your customer to send the item back to you. I realize
this wasn't the answer you were looking for, so allow me to explain this
decision in further detail.

As we have never seen the actual item it is difficult for us to
determine exactly what condition it was sent or received in. For this
reason, we have decided to get both parties involved as closely back to
square one as possible. To do this we will have your customer send the
item back to you for a full refund. When you receive it, we will
initiate a refund on your behalf to their PayPal account. If you do not
have funds available in PayPal, we will refund the buyer and will ask
you to reimburse us for the payment.

I would like to reiterate that we have come to this decision because it
is the fairest outcome for both you and your customer. You will get your
item back (and can relist it), and your customer will get their money
back. Please know that this decision was not made because we think you
knowingly deceived your customer, by any means.

Your customer is required to send the item out and upload the tracking
information for the shipment to the case within the next 7 days. If they
fail to ship the item and add the shipment's tracking number to the case
in that time, the case will be closed and no refund will be issued.

To help you avoid a similar frustrating situation in the future I would
like to provide you with a few suggestions. To help your buyers, list
with a title that is clear, complete, and descriptive. Say exactly what
the item is even if the title repeats the category name and include
details such as brand, product name, size, or artist. Imagine you are
the customer when you create the title and description for your listing.
What would you want to know about the item? What are its most appealing
characteristics? What words might you use to search for your item?
Taking this into account should help your future eBay transactions go
more smoothly.

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Looks like a form letter. No one checked facts. Im done with Ebay. I will not buy OR sell there ever again. Posting a picture & marking "no refunds" isnt enough. I had 20 similar auctions- all went fine. But the TWO I send to him are fakes?? Come on....

[s_o_r_r_o_w]

I don't think you should so readily discount that they are recasts. You didn't purchase them yourself NIB, right?

I think, judging from the pics, that he has legit concerns with the veracity of the casts. You're right, double mold lines are not, on their own, determinative, but something made this guy, who clearly wants those figs, go through this process with you. Buyer's remorse is too simple an explanation to apply in every circumstance. Could it apply here? Sure, but this guy seems to have wanted to resolve things pretty fairly with you. When you get them back, you can have a closer look and see what you think.

The mould offset is a different issue. GW figs have come with mould offsets, but the ones in the pics he sent you seem pretty extreme. You said the guy who sold them to you is willing to take them back?