Question: Making a game

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:30 pm

As a hobby, I have made a few game systems - Role playing games, tabletop games, and the like. However, I have wondered before if these could possibly make me any money.

I'm pretty sure that a Role Playing Game would be a better idea to start selling, as nothing would be needed aside from the rules. No models, no terrain, etc. But I don't know what way to sell them would be the best. I was just thinking and thought that making a web site and selling them online would be the easiest way with the least investment put forth - The only thing that I would need to buy would really be webhosting - I have everything else to make a 'Rulebook' with. It would also be very easy to have an 'E-book' type thing that is sold (Person buys the 'book' and either downloads it or receives it on a CD) online rather than hunting down a publisher, finding stores that would carry it, and all.

My questions are these:
How effective would this be? I know that people are more likely to impulse-buy online (Because they usually are not using cash. I know that if I had more money I'd do it) than they are in a real store, but I also know that online is not advertised as much. It's a lot easier to walk into a game store and see a new book than to randomly find a new website.

How much would such an e-book cost? I'm not referring to the cost to make, for while that is pretty time-intensive, I have a lot of spare time, and as I said, I do it as a hobby. This question is more of 'How much would you be willing to pay for one?' And putting the thing onto CD probably wouldn't cost very much at all, especially if I ordered it in bulk to myself and shipped the orders out individually. The only additional cost would be shipping

What kind of game/game system would be more popular? I know there are a lot of Fantasy/Medieval type of Role Playing games, so I was thinking that Sci-Fi games would be more unique, but unique doesn't mean that it would be popular.

How would I advertise? I know I would advertise online (Which would up the total cost, but probably wouldn't be by all too much if I did it on a few well-visited sites rather than several smaller sites), but what sites would be best? Also, what other means of advertisement would be viable? I'm nearly certain that radio and TV ads would be highly expensive, and I don't know any other easy places to advertise.

Comments/answers are appreciated. Feel free to add something that I may have missed.

damnit! · Post by **damnit!** » Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 pm

First of all, it's quite easy to publish in a purely downloadable format through, say, drivethroughRPG.com (probably the most popular) or other sites like it, without having to set up your own site, take credit cards, or any of that hassle. The hardest part is the getting people to buy your game to begin with. The market is flooded with so many different games, and it seems to have become so d20 dominated, that it will be difficult to get noticed among all the crap out there. I do, however, know what I'd like to work on, and if you'd be interested in some help and/or ideas, let me know. Since we both live in MD, collaboration could likely be easily arranged.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:04 am

I noticed your topic about working in a games store and that's what prompted me to post this. I'd love to see your ideas. If you have AIM, MSN messenger, or Yahoo messenger, then feel free to send me a message. Or PM them to me. Either way works.

One of the RPGs that I made (an old Warhammer 40k game that was never quite finished) simply used a D10 with some modifiers. It wasn't the best game ever (Was actually my first real try at one) but it would be relatively easy to make a system with a D10. D20 systems are very good and versatile, but I agree that there are way to many of them

AdamSouza · Post by **AdamSouza** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:41 am

Back when I was in high school me and a friend made NeuTron. It was basically TRON adapted for our purposes and we made the sytem D8 based, purely because there weren't any other D8 based RPGs

Coming up with a half way decent game idea isn't that hard. Coming up with game mechanics is purely secodnary. The hard part is getting people to play it.

For example. I playtested and demoed for DemonBlade Games'
SHOCKFORCE. The game had a fun concept, easy to learn mechanics, and allowed you to use any miniatures you had. Anyone I ever got to play the game bought the rules and played it and loved it. The game died when they lost their distributors becuase although the game was fantastic it was entirely spread by word of mouth.

GamesWorkshop has high prices, terrible service, runs a cut throat opperation, and mediocore mechanics, but has been on top becauase they are the first tabletop miniatures game most people come accross these days. They have Rouge Trader Retailers, regular retailers, Their own retailers, licensed video games, and major distributors.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:27 am

All of that is true.

However, every person started with something. It's worth a try. If it fails, it fails. If it doesn't, then that's awesome.

Right now I'm looking for a way to make a little money. Some of this will be used to expand this a little (Mainly to advertise in different places, but also to do things like add more 'books' and rules, make a better website, etc), but it's just something that can be used to turn my nonexistent income into an existent one.

One thing that is good about Damnit! wanting to help is that a lot of people are not interested in stuff made by younger people. Being 17 doesn't help my position. So, if I have an older person (Such as Damnit!) that I am working with, they'd see that there was an older person on the 'team' and not be disinterested because of age, regardless of who did what work.

damnit! · Post by **damnit!** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:06 am

Somebody was telling me about a universal miniatures game that was out of print, and I think Shockforce might have been it. FYI, Dark Tortoise now has the rights to the game engine, and here's a link to their site:

http://www.darktortoise.com/warengine.cfm

They are looking at licensing the system to other game designers, which might be worth checking out...

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:32 pm

check www.peginc.com for a free minis game. it's skirmish level, but can be played using larger forces. someone just posted on the forum they played with 200 minis per side.
the rules cover anything from cavemen to space marines; or should i say they allow the conversions of.

Andon · Post by **Andon** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:59 pm

The goal is not to play another game, it is to make another one. What Damnit! posted was something that may be able to be used to make a game. That's just a free game that can be used there.

AdamSouza · Post by **AdamSouza** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:04 pm

To answer a bunch of stuff in no particular order.

For a downloadable PDF game I wouldn't want to spend more than $5 tops. Most games shoot for $10, and that would probably be why I purchase very few downloadables. I payed more for SuperSystem 2nd Edition, but I already playtested, demoed, and owned the 1st edition rules of that game and the downloadable plus printing costs at Staples were still cheaper than retail plus shipping.

Dark Tortise is basically Demonblade Games. Aaron shut down DemonBlade and opened Dark Tortise for buissiness reasons, I don't recall why actually. If you look at their shopping section they still sell DemonBlades Shockforce and GWAR games

.

WarEngine was supposed to be a way for them to use the Shockforce game mechanics for more modern military gaming. It was a nice idea, but kinda flawed because SHOCKFORCE was already a universal rules set.
SHOCKFORCE was set in the near future after a post apocalyptic Y2K disaster

. After the year 2000 the premise for the setting just didn't seem as cool and they wanted to branch the game out into millitary and fantasy settings. Unfortunately for them all you need for that are new army lists and not a whole new game. To be honest, this is a prime example of a game that should be in downloadable format these days.

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:16 pm

if you want to re-invent the wheel.. go ahead.

i was trying to give you a basic set of rules, tha you could use to make any type of skirmish scenario, adventure or game.

damnit! · Post by **damnit!** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:10 pm

If I could find the download for those minis rules, I'd take a look, but I've searched PEG's site to no avail. They license their rules sets, so it might be worthwhile to check them out.

I agree that we shouldn't try to re-invent the wheel, but I think we'll still have to make our own, even if they're just improvements on the ones already out there.

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:17 pm

well it got moved.. here's a link to the download of the free rules, called sw showdown.

http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Wo ... owdown.pdf

also a link to the troop builder. a basic point/cost list.

http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Wo ... ntsREV.pdf

and finally a link to the forum that discusses both.

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

damnit! · Post by **damnit!** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:29 pm

Cool, thanks!

kturock · Post by **kturock** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:32 pm

np. enjoy.