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Is it just me or has the trade scene for Privateer Press become just shadow of what it was a couple years ago? It seems almost all the ads are W: $$ Is these due to the state of the game or am is my experience not indicative of reality?

The PP community Is having a tough time right now from what I've seen. From a couple people I've talked to it's a combination of the new ruleset for WM and the release of 8th edition 40k being popular. Combine that with years of cheap, highly discounted minis and you have a very depressed market.

PP is in a definite decline. My personal opinion is that with GW's resurgence, there are a lot of old 40K and Warhammer players coming back to the game. Rules set, the direction of the game (theme list orientated), and a general lack of direction seem to have kicked PP's sales in the pants. I'm pretty sure the death of the PG program didn't help all that much either. That's when I started to notice the change at least.

When MK3 first emerged, PP flipped and did a bad GW impression that soured a ton of players. Around this time GW had started going back to their old, good ways and introduced the Warhammer Community, etc.

I know a lot of people who raged hard on PP for what they did, going as far as remarks about Kirby must have stepped over to PP LOL.

I'm just getting back into WM although the popularity has dropped incredibly since I last played in MK1/MK2.

R

People around here just don't like MK3... Not even making a judgement about if MK3 is good or bad... but they don't want to play it...

But a lot of people felt the same way about AOS... AOS 2.0 maybe a few more came back...

40K is what people play right now, in the lower state SC region of the US, and (strangely) some Star Wars mini games (Armada and a little X-Wing even)...

Some people also feel that AOS was an attempt by GW to get rid of the older gamers... by changing the rules in (subtle and not so subtle) ways that they would not like... because the core of GW needs to be people buying minis and old players don't buy as much as young gamers (because they have more already - imho)... I don't mean so much age old as have been playing with GW products for a long time... They need to have a lot of disposable income either way... but I can easily trade off stuff for anything I want rather than buying.

MK3 might of been a similar attempt that failed... or cheap saturation could really be all it is... I could buy that... demand is a little lower and supply is still high.

You're correct re: older gamers.

Every "veteran" I knew back in 7th/8th WHFB spent NO money on models because they already had their collection finished. When End Times came out, they got whatever it was that was related to them and that was it.

They put absolutely nothing into the hobby and expected everything.

I'm not saying they were the thorn, but they were definitely helping jab it in.

R

Good point about older gamers. Great market if you have cash I guess. I started coming back to the game beginning of this year and I really do like it more than MKII. Just harder to swap the odd thing if it isn't the flavor of the month. The market is flooded with cheap minis and the recent mystery box sale has pushed the supply even higher.

The argument I heard several times of PP over GW, was that you didn't need to buy tons of models to play.
Now with AoS, Kill Teams, Necromunda, things have changed. No longer needing 2000+ points to play.
The people 'pushing' PP in the area always said, yeah, GW had better models, but PP didn't need as many. So it was cheaper.

GW started to 'support' play again. Maybe not with tournaments, but with play in stores. As far as I know, PP doesn't have stores.

GW has 1 store within 15 miles of my house. Another opening about 40 miles away, the end of the month.
Another is opening in a new location, after being closed for almost 5 years, 60 miles away.

The local store has 2 play tables, 1 demo table and 2 small painting stations.
The store opening at the end of the month will only have 1 play table, 1 demo table and 2 hobby locations. Places to paint and build. This is GW's newest plan.
See the difference between the 2 stores. The local is 5 years old. Only 5 years, but another change in GW's 'plan'.

GW always tricksy... but they were always the best show in town (everywhere I have lived)... and you will pay through the nose to see that show.

I really have a love/hate relationship with them... I wish they would get out of the rules business and become Citidel again... be what they say they are - a model company... Not a game making company.

Let others make the rules and let the models sell themselves with their own quality and beauty and not make an overpowered unit to sell a new model (or old model that you still have too much in stock) and just nerf it later.

Games Workshop is great at supporting the hobby and bringing people into the hobby... and giving them a place to learn and grow... it furnished (imho) the best in class models...

However, Games Workshop has done a pretty crappy job over the years of putting out games and killing them in their infancy when they don’t make enough... of changing rule sets just to sell books and models... of coming up with some pretty crappy rule sets... of butchering some good rule sets... blah blah blah.

You get the idea.