Bartertown.com

Ok so every time I think i have trading/buying values down someone throws me for a loop.


Here is the scenerio:

ask:
Forgeworld item out of box and partially modeled provided a specific dollar amount.

offered:

on spruce items (no boxes) of GW product that equaled the amount of the FW item in dollar amount new.



countered at 2 times the dollar amount of the GW product. so let's say that the GW product was worth 80 dollars they asked for ~150 dollars worth of GW product because it was NOS but out of box.


So I guess the question here is...Is Forgeworld even after it has been taken out of the package and also converted and modeled really worth twice as much as NOS GW product??

Or is that a little out there? I don't fault anyone who wants to ask for that but if the trading rate is really that much higher in the BT communitee then 1. I have a bunch of Forgeworld stuff I think I'm gonna drop on here to double my money with that hasn't been touched yet by a blade or package even opened, and 2. I deffinately won't trade/buy Forgeworld anywhere but from Forgeworld as I get it brand new.

Honestly it almost fells as if Forgeworld items no matter the condition don't loss value as I have seen a couple of things I like in the forums listed for MSRP.


(again no slack on trader just trying to gauge values in the future...but at this point I would just wait till Adepticon or the BT communitee has another Forgeworld mass order and get it new )

Some folks REALLY value their stuff highly. Much higher than the market supports. Unless it is out of print, I never offered or expected more than retail plus maybe 15% (for NIB stuff) for shipping and waiting (since FW shipping is usually expensive and takes a while). Plus, the quality control was terrible in the past, so this way I could see the actual model I was going for instead of getting a pitted, warped mess. Converted FW is the same as converted GW to me, which is to say, not worth much. I did not get the fun of chopping/positioning/adding bits to it, so part of the value is gone.

Asking double MSRP for something that is readily available and damaged (for all intents) seems "out there" to me. I would just wait for the next one to pop up, as nothing is that rare, really.

Don't assume the person you are trading with/buying from is a rational actor when it comes to value. There are some people for whom your stuff is worth 10% of retail and theirs, 110% somehow.

--Robert

themailedfist wrote:Don't assume the person you are trading with/buying from is a rational actor when it comes to value. There are some people for whom your stuff is worth 10% of retail and theirs, 110% somehow.

--Robert

Yeah or your NOS stuff isn't worth as much as their "pro painted stuff that looks like a cat could do better"!

3eland wrote:

themailedfist wrote:Don't assume the person you are trading with/buying from is a rational actor when it comes to value. There are some people for whom your stuff is worth 10% of retail and theirs, 110% somehow.

--Robert

Yeah or your NOS stuff isn't worth as much as their "pro painted stuff that looks like a cat could do better"!

now that made me laugh

I would say that forge world would be worth a little more, just because (as far as I know) FW isnt avalible at a discount. Where as most of "normal" GW stuff is.
That said, double seems a bit much.

Oh, and my cat is in search of commision work of anyone needs a "pro" paint!

I see that a lot people want to value the models because it's "Pro-Painted" my response is always " It doesnt match my paint scheme so I'l have to strip it anyways." I don't think painted or unpainted matters that much, at-least not to me.

3eland wrote:

themailedfist wrote:Don't assume the person you are trading with/buying from is a rational actor when it comes to value. There are some people for whom your stuff is worth 10% of retail and theirs, 110% somehow.

--Robert

Yeah or your NOS stuff isn't worth as much as their "pro painted stuff that looks like a cat could do better"!

kalamire wrote:I see that a lot people want to value the models because it's "Pro-Painted" my response is always " It doesnt match my paint scheme so I'l have to strip it anyways." I don't think painted or unpainted matters that much, at-least not to me.

3eland wrote:

themailedfist wrote:Don't assume the person you are trading with/buying from is a rational actor when it comes to value. There are some people for whom your stuff is worth 10% of retail and theirs, 110% somehow.

--Robert

Yeah or your NOS stuff isn't worth as much as their "pro painted stuff that looks like a cat could do better"!

Exactly, and to be brutally honest, sometimes a paint scheme (or the paint job) just plain out sucks! But most people look at the models that are painted and automatically deduct the amount of time and effort that will be going into it to strip and possibly fix up from the price. Although yes there are some that don't care about painted or not. It also depends on if it's a full painted force versus a full NIB force or if it's a full NIB force for a almost full NIB/NOS force with a few painted here and there.

In today's market where you can get NIB at 35% off retail, you have to realize your assembled, painted models will not even closely compare to NIB.

As for Forgeworld at a discount, yes there are actually places you can get discounts on Forgeworld, mostly because they are re-casters. However I may or may not be able to state that they may or may not be just as good and may or may not be worth whatever price they may or may not be listed at .

At the end of the day, I try and go retail for retail, then depending on assembly and painting I try and balance it. So if your Forgeworld item is 80 USD NIB and your trading for painted models, I would try and match first 80 USD in painted models, and then as a trader, work with the person to make an even trade. Like even 90 USD of painted models for 80 USD NIB Forgeworld item is decent. Now, if the paint job WAS professionally done and it looks showcase quality THEN I would take that into account.

Remember though, anyone can ask what they want. Your models hold higher value than a strangers! So it's all about communicating with your partner and having room to haggle around, this is after all BARTERtown!
(see what I did there )

This might be me being in "old man mode" but it really seems that a lot of the new traders on this site are pretty delusional. "I'm willing to sell my poorly painted, poorly put together (and as long as we're on the subject when did everyone suddenly forget how to trip, snip and put a model together with any skill) for 80% of retail and you should be happy to get it." The last couple of trades that I've gotten have had paint on them so thick that the first wash in purple power just loosened up the top layer, or have been put together in such a way that they don't even look like the models they are supposed to be.

And these are generally the people who only want to trade for "Nos/NIB ONLY".

Heck right now there is a dark vengeance box up for trade that is split out and priced at over 325 dollars. It's just offensively stupid.

I have to agree. When I see pro=painted on a tag, I can usually bet that it is definitely not up to my standards so not worth my time. This is especially so considering im just gonna strip it or paint over it so the models will fit in with my army anyway.
I saw a guy advertising 40k role play books like the rogue trader ones. I pmed to ask the price and pictures and the prices he was asking was ABOVE retail and the books look like they had been trashed by an ork mob on shrooms.
I understand people value their stuff but I'm not going to pay more than what I can get brand spanking new models for from a retailer where I can have a guarantee (I bought a new on sprue assault marine squad from someone here and when the box came the sprues had been picked over to the point I was only able to make 1 full models and had to raid my own bitz box to complete the other four). A lot of sellers just don't realize how easy it is to get some items. I deal here, but I have become VERY picky about what I deal for and always ask for pictures of the exact item I am buying. Likewise, I have no problem providing them for someone else who is as careful. I respect them and their caution without taking it personal.

EVIL INC wrote:<SNIP>
I understand people value their stuff but I'm not going to pay more than what I can get brand spanking new models for from a retailer where I can have a guarantee (I bought a new on sprue assault marine squad from someone here and when the box came the sprues had been picked over to the point I was only able to make 1 full models and had to raid my own bitz box to complete the other four). <SNIP>

+1 to this, I think a lot of people forget about this. On the internet, it is very easy to get NIB items that you know will be 100% full, and to add on to that you can usually get them 25-35% off. So, that GREATLY impacts the selling price of painted or even assembled models.

bluemeenie wrote:So I guess the question here is...Is Forgeworld even after it has been taken out of the package and also converted and modeled really worth twice as much as NOS GW product??

It was to that guy. : )

I find the fact that he seemed to value his partially assembled (out of package) item at so much more than your (not assembled) item that was "out of package" a bit confuddling. ; ) I'd have POLITELY responded with as much.

As has been pointed out, value is relative to everyone.

Re: pro-painted...

I have some pro painted models I have tried to get rid of on here. Most don't sell. They are TRULY pro-painted (commission painters and eBay sellers wo make a living selling them). I've encountered the "I'll just strip it" comment, which I'm not offended by, but NOBODY ever complains about the paint quality after seeing these models. These are not "just strip it" models. At worst, they're "sell it on eBay, buy the items I want online and pocket the difference" quality. To each his own, though.
...not matching the other person's existing paint scheme is a legit reason not to want well painted items, but that's about all I can see, IMO (barring people who only field models they painted themselves).

Eric

Having a pretty large collection of FW models, I will always value FW stuff for less in trades because of the following:

1/ FW needs a invoice number to replace miscasts parts, second hand means no invoice number.
2/Although i'm pretty good at spotting recasts, second hands and that's largely true for FeePAy are most likely recasts. i have a list of 2 dozens of ebay users known as recasters that i update frequently. it's my not to buy from list and when i have a doubt, FW guys are really helpful in the process...

so when i buy/sell FW products, it always with a discount on it (10% for NIB, 15-20% for assembled depending on the job. also US people pays another 15% shipping fee from FW which people tends to "forget"

For those reasons, i'd rather order directly large amounts of FW every now and them than chasing Amy and running a chance i'll get crap. So unless it's a good deal, i would advise to order directly from FW, it's often cheaper and safer for NIB stuff. For used stuff, well it's used so it's worth less...

on your case and as Eric mentioned, i find disturbing a out of package unassembled slightly converted assembled model worth that much, i would ask for pics at least.

On the same line, converted models are sometimes difficult to price out properly. for example: my Iron Hands Seeler Squad of 10 models: 9 are armed with a combo-melts that could be only found in the FW mk3 boarding marine, am i going to count 270$ just for the weapons and add on top of that the price of 10 FW marines and the resin bases? That would put the price of 10 guys close to the price of brand new army for any given game.... that just not realistic. after that comes in the quality of the conversion, and that's entirely subjective...

my 2 cents

J.

MagickalMemories wrote:I have some pro painted models I have tried to get rid of on here. Most don't sell. They are TRULY pro-painted (commission painters and eBay sellers wo make a living selling them). I've encountered the "I'll just strip it" comment, which I'm not offended by, but NOBODY ever complains about the paint quality after seeing these models. These are not "just strip it" models. At worst, they're "sell it on eBay, buy the items I want online and pocket the difference" quality. To each his own, though.

...not matching the other person's existing paint scheme is a legit reason not to want well painted items, but that's about all I can see, IMO (barring people who only field models they painted themselves).

Ding ding ding! (no, not The Fox again!)

You pegged me, there, Eric. I want the models to match my own paint scheme. As Blood Angels, you'd think this would be a "duh" - c'mon, how hard can "red" be? - but I have a squadron of three Land Speeders I bought years ago off eBay that were painted in Red Gore instead of Go Fasta Blood Angels red, and, pretty as they are, they really look out of place!

I don't buy nicely painted models any more for specifically the reasons you cite: I want to be the one to paint my Blood Angels, even if it takes me the rest of my life, and I will make sure they match my existing paint scheme because I'll be the one doing it. Anything I buy painted these days is specifically so I can strip it and get the model underneath. I typically don't buy painted plastic - and thus value it as nearly worthless! - unless I think I can make something out of it without stripping it.

Well, if you play nurgle, you can crudely scrape it (or even just leave it on) and paint over it because it is supposed to look diseased and blobby. Heck, if it's broken hot glue gun it and paint the glue as ooze.