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Im really truly a Dark Angel player but recently Ive finally decided to play my IG Ive collected for years. The question is can Heavy Weapons teams atart the game in a chimera. Obviously if the Chimera doesn't move and they are inside they can fire. I tryed it on armybuilder but it didnt work. But I know if you put a Commissar or Psyker HQ in there and use a Chimera as their personal transport, then you can put the Heavy Weapon team in there starting the game out.

Is there any other way I could get them starting in the game in there at the beginning of the game? Because I run a Steel Legion army and Im trying to make it fluffier then fluff on this lol. Plus it would be fun to have my 8 chimeras (thanks btown) all packed full with something at sometime in a game. (better bring anti-tank)

I honestly wondered this myself as I play SL as well. I have always wanted to but never actually done it as it wasn't available in Abuilder. Heck it would kick ass if we could.

I am thinking you can if you buy the dedicated transport for an infantry squad and start them out walking. I know they loosened up the transport rules this edition but it has been awhile since I did an in-depth read of them.

Norsemen at my local gameshop me and a bunch of longtime IG players debated this yesterday. We have army builder at our shop and all of us came to the conclusion while referencing both to the IG codex and the 40k rulebook that the only way we can do this really is if we take either a Commissar in a Chimera or any other character in a Chimera. Then we can attach the Heavy Weapon team to the Character. We all came to the conclusion that is the only real way to do it because on army builder you aren;t given the option. So considering I like to take a command squad I'm probably gonna nerf them and put in a commissar and instead have 2 platoon commands. Also with Yarrick I can do the same thing as long as he has his own transport.

This is really the only way I know us Steel Legion players can get our Heavy Weapon teams starting in Chimeras in the beginning of the game. Other then this I really do not know if there is a possible way.

Nope, there is no way to start a Heavy Weapon SQUAD (consisting of three HW TEAMS) in a Chimera. It's easy to start a team in a Chimera, just put a team in a regular IG Infantry squad or Vet squad or Command squad and but that squad a Chimera. But, as pointed out already, a HW Squad cannot have a dedicated transport.

And the Primaris Psyker/Commisar Lord route does not work either. The rules allow an IC joined to a unit to start in the unit's transport, but does not allow the reverse. So while an IC may have a treansport, the IC is the only unit that can start in that transport (unless it has a retinue).

On a side note, I don't care much for HW Squads. They're too fragile and of limited effectiveness. Think about it. The squad consists of three T3 2-Wound models with LD 7. With the plethora of ST 6 and higher weapons out there, HW squads seldom survive long enough to be of any use. And with LD 7 and no ability to raise their LD (other than Commissar Lord or Kell), you cannot rely on Orders to improve their shooting. While it costs more< I prefer to put my HW teams into Infantry squads and blob them together with a Commissar and vox in one of the squads. Now it's a 28-model unit with LD 9, rerolls for Orders and Morale, Stubborn, and has 24 ablative wounbds before I have to put a single wound on the HWs (Altho I usually put one ST 5 or lower wound on them early on to lower casualties).

I checked it out and DM is right. Infantry squads are the only choice that gets a transport options No HW no Special no conscripts. The Rulebook only allows the unit WITH the transport option to START in the transport(along with any IC attached to the unit), but subsequent turns they can transport anything. You would have to use a Valk if you wanted them in-cased in armor. Sorry. Wish i could say otherwise. I wish HW squads could join infantry squads as well. But again no dice.

Alright just checked out my codex though and it doesn't state the transport option for the heavy weapon squads. Although I am at my gameshop now and a guy that played in aard boyz and won it with IG told me that their is a way you can do it. And the only way is by putting them with a commissar in his personal transport. He said there is some kind of rule regarding it in a FAQ. Also the codex does not state that I cannot do this and the rulebook also makes no reference to me being able to not do this as well on the dedicated transport page.

Simply put it is possible but relies on the use of chimeras in a personal transport. The rules don't say anything against so therefore the move is possible considering in tournaments that they refer to the rules for reference. So I guess it kinda makes it cheesy in the long run.

I think its page 67 dedicated transports bottom right hand side of the page in a little grey box. It explains the rules. I will check the FAQ tonight.

Well, the guy that played it with his IG and won the Ard Boyz is wrong. Just because he got away with it at a local store tourney (which is all most Ard Boyz tournies actually are) , does not mean it's right. There is nothing in the main rules, codex or FAQs that allows it. The only unit that can start in a trensport is the unit that it belongs to plus any attached ICs. In this instance, the unit that the tranport belongs to IS the IC, and him joining a squad does not allow them to start the game in his transport, as they are most certainly not an IC joined to teh unit owning the transport.

don_mondo wrote:Well, the guy that played it with his IG and won the Ard Boyz is wrong. Just because he got away with it at a local store tourney (which is all most Ard Boyz tournies actually are) , does not mean it's right. There is nothing in the main rules, codex or FAQs that allows it. The only unit that can start in a trensport is the unit that it belongs to plus any attached ICs. In this instance, the unit that the tranport belongs to IS the IC, and him joining a squad does not allow them to start the game in his transport, as they are most certainly not an IC joined to teh unit owning the transport.

Not quite. This guy I can verify that he plays 40k by the rules and how they are written. The thing is I believe this issue is actually one of those problems in 40k where it doesnt state that you can't do it anywhere. Which ends up meaning to the player, fair game. I believe now after the 2nd day of looking at the rules thats what it is and thats what it seems to be.

I can understand the arguement about the IC but no where does it state that you can't do that in neither the Guard Codex or the 40k rulebook. Although I guess there is an FAQ regarding the issue but I have still yet to find it.

Spartan 117 wrote:I can understand the arguement about the IC but no where does it state that you can't do that in neither the Guard Codex or the 40k rulebook. Although I guess there is an FAQ regarding the issue but I have still yet to find it.

Borrowed from another forum...

"It doesn't say I can't." is never a valid argument. The rules tell you what you may do, everything else is prohibited. If someone really wants to argue this, simply say "The rules don't say I can't smash all your models to bits and claim victory."

oAF

If he is playing by the "It doesn't say I can't" mantra, then he is most definitely NOT playing by the rules. I'm a former GW Grand Tournamnt and Games Day RTT Judge, and "it doesn't say I can't" is never an acceptable rules argument. And it does indeed say he can't, since it specifically spells out who CAN. Page 67, main rules:

"The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters)."

So the Lord Commissar is the unit the transport was selected for. Now you tell me, is the Infantry squad the LC joins an IC? And there is nothing in the FAQs or IG codex that supercedes the main rules in this instance. Bottom line, if you want to do something, you need to show a rule that says you CAN do it. The lack of a rule forbidding does NOT mean it is allowed.

don_mondo wrote:If he is playing by the "It doesn't say I can't" mantra, then he is most definitely NOT playing by the rules. I'm a former GW Grand Tournamnt and Games Day RTT Judge, and "it doesn't say I can't" is never an acceptable rules argument. And it does indeed say he can't, since it specifically spells out who CAN. Page 67, main rules:

"The only limitation of a dedicated transport is that when it is deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters)."

So the Lord Commissar is the unit the transport was selected for. Now you tell me, is the Infantry squad the LC joins an IC? And there is nothing in the FAQs or IG codex that supercedes the main rules in this instance. Bottom line, if you want to do something, you need to show a rule that says you CAN do it. The lack of a rule forbidding does NOT mean it is allowed.

Hmm interesting point. Im not trying to do it because I want to win at all. ( Besides when the chimera explodes the squad should die lol) Im just trying to do it fluff wise for my Steel Legion Army. Supposedly this was the only way you could do it. But I'll take your advice on the topic.

Heck, if you want heavy weapons in a chimera, just go vets or command squads. Sure, it's only one gun but vets are BS 4, and if the vehicle does get exploded, you have ablative bodies to soak up the wounds. While I usually put all my HW in blobs, I sometimes add a vet squad with a HW and three plasma guns. Very effective at 24" or less and far more surviveable than a HW squad.

don_mondo wrote:Heck, if you want heavy weapons in a chimera, just go vets or command squads. Sure, it's only one gun but vets are BS 4, and if the vehicle does get exploded, you have ablative bodies to soak up the wounds. While I usually put all my HW in blobs, I sometimes add a vet squad with a HW and three plasma guns. Very effective at 24" or less and far more surviveable than a HW squad.

Thats not a bad idea either. Its just the Steel Legion models are so expensive.

Well, I can't help much with that. I'm still using RT era IG models............. But that's why we're here on B'town, right?