thoughts on new 6th ed.

[tacticalguy24]

I'm in agreement with MM, I dislike the rules for 6th ed. that I've actually decided to quit. That's right, all 8600+ points are up for grabs thanks to GW ruining this game for me. And I was all excited for games day, now im going for no reason except getting the gamesday fig for another B-towner.

[kturock]

really? I hated what happened in 3rd ed thru 5th. It made it an all close combat, no thinking spam army game. You didn't have to think where to move. Shooting was bullskip. all that mattered was getting a horde of models into close combat asap. [and everyone know why shoot a gun, when it makes such a nifty club] the locals just take the models by the bunch and literally drop them into hth.. not even moving them.

Now it's a shooting game. all you players with your horde armies now have to ..THINK on how to play.

I had a bug army in 2nd ed. I had some Orks too. How did we play.. we used cover and put crap troops as a wall up front.

now, the nid players don't even have hormagants or termagants. It's all big creatures.
Orks must take trukks to get into hth or die.. really? what about having a wall of grots to get shot 1st?

overwatch still blows.. it's better than nothing, which is what was in 3rd thru 5th.
You wast you entire movement phase waiting to shoot at something and only hit on 1 outta 6.

Now when you shoot a model in the front, it dies. before all you swarmers got 2-3 free inches of movement every shooting phase. I shoot you, you take the front mini out and replace it with a rear model. [which is what taking from the rear does.]

Yes, IG has no reason to move at all.. but really, did they ever? They have been a shooting army. They used to really suck at shooting, but now they have so many shots, that the law of averages take over.
Yes, 40k became yathzee...rolling as many dice as possible, don't even bother to try tactics or even...thinking.

When I complained, here about how poorly the game changed, I was told to get over it or quit.

So what do I say to you know?
Get over it or quit.

Movement actually matters. cover matters. weapons matter. Grenades actually do something other than be a game mechanic.

I've had and played every army since RT except for tau & necrons & dEldar. I played bugs, SM, IG and Orks in 2nd ed; where SM ruled for shooting and Nids owned hth. If genestealers, yes they were the staple of an army, got to your line, even termies, you died. period.
Now, i barely see them, just all the big bugs, since they can't be touched by shooting. they get into hth and just own everything.

Greater deamons used to be devistating, like in fantasy, in 40k, they suk or are just ok, deamons in a csm army actually were the same as a deamon army..[actually there was just 1 book for both, after the RT 2 'expansions']


I'm actually painting or finishing painting my CSM, instead of selling them.

[tacticalguy24]

not me, im totally finished with 40k and GW, which means that after its sold you guys wont see me around here anymore

[kturock]

You might want to look at trading it for something else. You'll get more for you $.

There are other GOOD games out there. Most even have free rules or partial rules to read or download online.

GW & 40k have been the BMOC for so long, people completely forget about other games. and surprizingly, they actually have thought out rules and.. a web presence other than a mail order store; even .. official answers to questions.

[tacticalguy24]

im not getting into any other miniature game. and I dont play much in the way of video games, so its best if I try to recoup some of my money and call it a learning experience

[Gaijin18]

Hmmmms,,,so my all foot IG army might be even better now?

Ponders and grins

[fitterpete]

Hey K unless I'm really missing it
Overwatch isn't as bad as you think.You don't have to declare it in your turn like in 2nd.You just get it when a charge is declared on you.It doesn't matter what your unit did on their turn they still get to fire overwatch.
Pete
PS I hope someone doesn't show me I'm wrong as I would feel like a boob

[kturock]

That's what I'm saying.. back in 2nd ed.. you could have your shooters just sit there and wait for someone to run thru your LOS, then shoot at full BS.
Now, you get snap shot, instead, which isn't as good.

IMHO there should be snap shot,\; a move and fire option, where you have BS1 on certain weapons and snap shot when you get charged..Like the current rules state.

BUT.. I feel there also should be overwtach, where you do not move, you sit and 'watch', then there you get your full BS if someone moves through your LOS.

Snap shot, as a declared charge response, isn't as good as 'stand & fire' in fantasy. But, it's the exact same thing. In both, your opponent declares a charge, you roll to shoot, wound & casualties are removed. Then the Attacker rolls his charge distance.

So, the shooters in fantasy are better than the shooters in 40k. Fantasy gets full BS, 40k only BS 1. So guns are harder to shoot than bows & crossbows? Not.

[spiralingcadaver]

Maybe they decided the old rule was too good? Maybe they decided fantasy ranged pieces needed a leg up?

[kturock]

another leg up for fantasy is different base movement rates. Now, no matter the race, everything walks at the same speed; from fast moving bugs to slow moving terminators. A;; cav moves the same. All infantry moves the same.

[tacticalguy24]

I agree with you Kturock, they need to change movement for 40k, this is all the more reason to offload my army and quit before I go and get upset and break em....

[spiralingcadaver]

another leg up for fantasy is different base movement rates. Now, no matter the race, everything walks at the same speed; from fast moving bugs to slow moving terminators. A;; cav moves the same. All infantry moves the same.

This would take rebalancing along the lines of 2nd-->3rd, which would be something I personally agree with, but I don't think GW is interested in that (considering it's been 4 editions). Also, termies nominally don't move as quickly, represented by rules rather than a stat.

The only way, at this point, that I can think they might be able to do it is a universal movement modifier (i.e. space marines and orks are -1" on all standard movement, eldar and 'nids are +1", or something), but that would still require re-pricing a ton of stuff...

[kturock]

Yes, they have rules rather than having a stat.
Why make an entire new set of rules and modifiers when you just need 1 stat.
Simple.. all humans move 4" in fantasy, most all cav move 8".
Eldar would be the same as elves, 5". Cav in FB are 9" but it can easily be 10.
Taller creatures, like ogres, move 6". Faster, like skaven, move 6".

so to convert to 40k. IG, CSM, SM, Tau move 4...or if you want a faster movement; make the base 6" instead of 4".
Eldar/DEldar move 1" faster, either 5 or 7. Cav would vary depending on the races base speed.
Bugs would be like skaven. The low level, hormagaunts would move like 8" [or 12"]. Termagants would move a bit slower, 6". [or 9"]
Genestealers would be fast also, but not as fast as termagants, say like termagants. The bigger bugs, would move faster, like ogres in FB.

You could take the exact stats from FB and, if they're actually calculated using a specific point system, rather than just guess work, all you would need to do is plug in the numbers & do the math.
Deamons and most humans & chaos are already in FB. Greater deamons in FB are serious points, but also seriously deadly. In 40k they are almost worthless.

Everyone's now complaining that their charge/spam/swarm armies are worthless under the new rules. Look at how many nids & deamon armies are up for sale.
If they moved faster than the average, [or the players used screening troops, like we did in 2nd ed.] they'd have more than a chance to get there intact. Cannon fodder anyone? a local nid player has all big models and no or few screens. He's complaing he got nerfed. He took a weakness in the last 3 editions and exploited it. Now he's made it's gone. [removing casualties from the rear. It gave you 2-5 inches of free movement.]

Also, cover. Most of the games I see at the flgs have maybe 4 pieces of terrain spread out on 2 tables. Great for vehicles to move thru and shooting armies to sit back and shoot.
The other shop I play at has the board covered with terrain. Swarm/charge/spam armies need cover.

[spiralingcadaver]

Actually, that's pretty appropriate. Having played other games, a good quantity of terrain would probably balance 40k better.

[kturock]

my moble csm force got eaten wednesday nite. 3 rhinos, 1 LR & 1 pred. we had night fighting..all night. so much for my havoc launchers on the LR & pred. or my Emps childrens long range shots. all of his stuff was at 38+ inches or in reserve.
scouring mish and had the 3rd starting setup, the corners. I was behind terrain.. with only 2 ways out.. my pred on 1st turn got immobized blocking the pass on a lucky shot. Next turn it was destroyed. so everything had to turn aroundin the deployment zone and ended up fighting all of his jump troops & speeders.
ended on T5.. he had 8 vp to my 3.. he had 3 objectives, 1st blood & 1 model in my DZ.
the terrain was set up for anything but tanks...
my original army was 2k but he only had 1.5k so I used an old list..bad move.
it had alot of bikes & raptors, like 10+ each. termies in a LR and some oblits. also 2 sets of 5 Emp. children in rhinos.