GW's continued scam [rant]

[kturock]

GW, who changes, adds and then removes figues from play by adding and removing rules and stats has done it again.

Last edition they eliminated the Skaven Doomwheel stating, "we all know that it was a joke and a take off on a hamster ball."

Well, guess what they re-released.

It's plastic instead of metal.

So, now that everyone has gotten rid of their old one, since it had no rules or stats for over 2 years, they re-release it.

This policy of a lack of customer support is the biggest reason I sold or am selling all my GW minis.

I expect the chaos dwarfs to be out sometime again.

*edited to remove the Doomwheel picture lifted from GW's website. Sorry, but GW legal is on a crusade recently with C&D letters and we don't need one.* - HarlequinZero

[Imaginos]

Not much of a rant.

Nevertheless, somewhat implausible that their plan was to wait until customer # Nth sold their doom wheel before releasing it again. I'd say most likely they got enough feedback and someone there thought the doomwheel was cool.

[reegsk]

I would agree with Creeper. Perhaps they saw a trend two editions ago of Skaven players not using the Doomwheel, or they decided to change the feel of the Skaven army and drop the doomwheel. I highly doubt they intentionally waited until people had sold their doomwheels and then BAM!, they bring it back.

It's kind of a moot point anyway. When they released plastic terminators, people dropped the old metal ones for the new kit. Had they kept the Doomwheel in the last Skaven book, I would imagine that a lot of Skaven players would put their old ones aside for the newer, cooler kit. Games Workshop isn't some evil corporation trying to screw over their patrons. This isn't a tobacco company, here. Games Workshop has some of the best customer service of any company I've dealt with. What other company can you call when you get a defective product, and they zip a replacement to you ASAP? Most other companies, you have to send it back, talk to about thirty different people on the phone who are all apparently ignorant of any other contact you've had with the company, and then maybe, eventually you'll get a replacement. Sure, they do stuff that ticks me off too, but I don't think it's because they're intentionally screwing me over. They're a business, and they have to make business decisions. Sometimes they make bad ones. Sometimes they make ones we don't agree with. Bear in mind that GW is unique amongst tabletop gaming companies. No other tabletop games are quite as widespread, and certainly no other tabletop gaming company has its own stores. No other company runs its own, independent conventions (although, one North American GD this year???). If they don't make money, the company collapses in on itself. Best case, they become like Privateer Press and just sell through their website and indy retailers. In any case, they'd be nothing like they are now.

[kturock]

I guess both of you haven't been playing GW long. This is just the most recent 'drop/ban/re-release' they've gone through. I can't remember how many things I've seen GW do this to over the last 20 years.

Harlequins, chaos dwarves, squats, doomwheel; these are the models/minis/armies off the top of my head, that GW has dropped, for 'balance of the game'. Two of which have been re-released. If there was a balance issue, then just rewrite the rules, like happens in every codex and army book.

.

[starslayer]

I guess both of you haven't been playing GW long. This is just the most recent 'drop/ban/re-release' they've gone through. I can't remember how many things I've seen GW do this to over the last 20 years.

Harlequins, chaos dwarves, squats, doomwheel; these are the models/minis/armies off the top of my head, that GW has dropped, for 'balance of the game'. Two of which have been re-released. If there was a balance issue, then just rewrite the rules, like happens in every codex and army book.

.

Bingo!
I WAS a long time player of GW, but constant ridiculous price increases & lack of balance in the rules had me sell off everything & never look back.

[MagickalMemories]

I understand your rant, kt.

I've only been playing since late 3e... but I get it.

Fact is, GW has a game to sell models. Not the other way around.
Every edition change of every game will see them change the rules enough to require us to buy certain models to be competetive. Look at this edition of 40K & troops... Used to be that most people took the minimum 2 troop units & bulked up on the heavy hitters. Now, you've gotta have 4 troop choices to be competetive. KWIM?

It'll keep happening.

As annoyed as they make me, though, I'd call it less of a conspiracy, and more of a marketing scheme.

Eric

[HonorforONEFilms]

I agree that GW has done in the past and is doing is kinda cheap but if they can keep people hooked on their games and still make money with their ban and re-releases then more power to em. It really doesn't bother me because I buy everything here or on ebay. I think the smallest percent off I've ever made was 30-40 percent. I just don't buy very often and try to get stuff in bigger lots. And a lot of the models you can make yourself or convert or what not.

I currently have about a 3000 point dwarf army composed of almost entirely Battle for Skull Pass stuff. Three units of warriors one unit painted as longbeards one unit painted as ironbreakers. Soon I'll have a converted unit of Hammerers and a unit of rangers. Then I've got gunners, heros a unit of slayers ect. I made an anvil of doom from ceiling foam and am making a Gyrocopter. I've already converted two cannons into a organ gun and a flame cannon. I've got a 6th edition grudge thrower and a 6th edition bolt thrower. Then I have about 6 other cannons so to be converted. So I've got a pretty good size army dirt cheap. I sold one painted set of Dwarf BFSP for 2 dollars a model and was able to buy these unpainted ones for .25 cents a model.

Yeah... I'm very happy right now.

So even though GW may be annoying, I still like them.

[wookieegunner]

The other piece you aren't factoring is the human element. One of the issues you run into over the long haul is that different people have different opinions. This has nothging to do with the corporation. I'll give another example you left out, the Ork Shokk Attak gun. It was in the 2nd edition codex and then GW changed who was in charge of 40k. The new guy thought the Orks were too comical and removed it to make them more serious. This had nothing to do with GW trying to get us to buy new models. It was merely a decision by a manager based on their opinions of what orks should be. That guys leaves, new guys is put in charge and look the Shokk Attak gun is back. No hidden agenda, purely different line developers take on what Orks should be.

[starslayer]

I like GW's games & items. The big question for me was- "Is it worth the (very high) price?" The consistent answer for me was a resounding- "NO WAY!". $7.00 for a magazine that is nothing more then a catalog. $2.00+ for a little plastic soldier. $15.00 for a metal hero. No thanks. If you have the extra money- great- go with GW. I have other things that are more important to spend my money on. IMHO (just mine!) Games Workshop does NOt give value for the price tag. If you want to buy GW products, thats your choice. I have no problem with what you spend your money on- you earned it.

[GMMStudios]

I agree with wookie - It is just the ebb and flow of things. I doubt if you went back to when Harlies were first made, or even squats, and asked the designers if they planned on dropping and (for the former) rereleasing the model, heck no. I think it is human nature to look for a conspiracy where there isnt one. I think it is just tastes changing and evolving. It also what sells. If something isnt selling (or in the case of Dark Eldar and Squats, also damages the games image to many people)* then by all means they should drop it. Its a business and they are here to make money. I dont hold anything they do to keep themselves healthy as a business against them, its just smart. (Not that they have never done anything dumb!

As an aside - in my opinion there is nothing dropped I miss, and nothing brought back I wish wasnt. More models is more models and I cant think of a nice sculpt that has been dropped to be honest.

I also disagree with Starslayer. I think it is a great value. Yes WD is pretty pointless unless you like the pics, but you really cant find a game of this scale, this HUGE amount of background, this following, and this quality for the price.

Heck just go and try and make a Warhammer army out of ANY other manufacturers models. There is no way its cheaper unless you are using something like Wargames Foundry which are one peice very simple plastic sculpts (and not much cheaper!)

* Some people see them as damaging the image of the company because Squats are not PC, and Dark Eldar are a knock off of a knock off - Dark elves are...dark elves in fantasy. Eldar are elves in space. Dark Eldar are dark elves in space.

Do I agree with that? I dunno, another army is another army. I agree that the whole knock off thing is silly but what else is there? Chaos Squats? Space Skaven?

[JohnHwangBT]

Oh, noes. My Harlies / Griffons / Vanquishers / Exterminators aren't playable right now. I guess I oughta knee-jerk sell them...

Oh wait, they came back!

Seriously, if you've been playing for any length of time, stuff comes and goes and is supported when GW can support stuff.

If you can't deal with the ebb and flow, perhaps the GW Hobby (tm) isn't for you...

[Lord Alaric]

I kind of agree with kturock and starslayer on this. I've been playing 40K since 2nd Ed.(except for the last few years). And I've seen them do this numerous times over the years. Not to mention just not supporting an army once it is released, as well as their "specialist" games. Quite honestly, I think that if they are going to release something, they need to continue to support it, whether it's from one edition to another, or entire army line, or a specialist game.
I got fed up with their constant price hikes and such, and sold/traded all my GW away in favor of Warmachine and Hordes. At the time, it was gaining popularity in my local gaming community. However, over the course of the last year, it has lost popularity and it's hard to get a game of it in at all. Therefore, for me to enjoy my hobby, I have to go back to GW products. Is this GW's fault? No, it isn't by any stretch. But, that's not really the topic of the thread.

[GMMStudios]

Holy crap I agree with JHBT!!



Alaric - but it is GW's fault, in this case it really is a conspiracy to keep you coming back and playing by having the best games all around. You said it yourself, it has the biggest player base and that is for a reason!

Price hikes are going to happen. This is a pretty liberal world we live in now so inflation is high. Its going to touch GW too especially since they use plastic and tin. Just look at Warmachine a few years ago, they misjudged the rising price of tin, and jacks that they said wouldnt change in price went from less than $20 to whatever the Ironclad costs now. Same for the starters. Its just a part of the game.

And I await the day when people put the notions of "GW is a money hungry corp rolling in the dough!" and "GW is barely making a profit check out these quarterly numbers!" together and peoples heads explode GW isnt gouging it is obviously charging what it needs to stay alive.

Sorry if this was harsh I just wish people would get that sometimes. GW does wierd stuff sometimes but most of the time its because they are a business and they know more about business than we do. What doesnt make sense to us will make sense and is smart to someone with a degree in business working for GW.

[osloco]

Holy crap I agree with JHBT!!
Sorry if this was harsh I just wish people would get that sometimes. GW does wierd stuff sometimes but most of the time its because they are a business and they know more about business than we do. What doesnt make sense to us will make sense and is smart to someone with a degree in business working for GW.

Really you think so? I find it hard to blindly follow that people who sell anything are much smarter than any other person. GW is a business that makes fun games, but they have terrible service, and constantly change employees. I could get over the prices more easily if they had good customer support and quickly FAQd problems, but they drag their asses and you have to wait for the next codex, or a terrible FAQ that doesn't address any of the main problems. I also think they don't mind gouging their regulars when times are tough. I am almost at the point of not buying anything else from them and switching to other systems that have better customer support.

[Lord Alaric]

Alaric - but it is GW's fault, in this case it really is a conspiracy to keep you coming back and playing by having the best games all around. You said it yourself, it has the biggest player base and that is for a reason!

I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, so, I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it. The best games all around...all I can say is that I don't think they have the best games at all, in my opinion there are other games out there with a lot better systems, not to mention minis that are either on par with or even better than GW. One of the problems is that there are also a lot of very closed minded people out there that aren't open to trying new things, especially in my area. One of the things that keeps people involved with GW games is the investment they have already put forth, they just don't want to feel like they have wasted their money, can't say I blame them. Especially when you consider that they have "simplified" the game to the extent that it doesn't take much skill to win any more if you are a number cruncher/power gamer. It takes a lot of fun out of the game. And it is supposed to be fun, after all.

Price hikes are going to happen. This is a pretty liberal world we live in now so inflation is high. Its going to touch GW too especially since they use plastic and tin. Just look at Warmachine a few years ago, they misjudged the rising price of tin, and jacks that they said wouldnt change in price went from less than $20 to whatever the Ironclad costs now. Same for the starters. Its just a part of the game.

And I await the day when people put the notions of "GW is a money hungry corp rolling in the dough!" and "GW is barely making a profit check out these quarterly numbers!" together and peoples heads explode GW isnt gouging it is obviously charging what it needs to stay alive.

I understand that price hikes happen, that's the nature of society, with inflation and all. However, I used to work at the LGS in my area, and have dealt with GW while addressing the needs of the store. But, to continually raise prices each year in my opinion is a bad move. And the line of thinking that "GW is barely making a profit check out these quarterly numbers!", quite honestly is probably because their prices continually go up. Combined with today's economy, we can buy even less.
It makes it very difficult for those of us who have supported their games for years, and helped build GW into what it is,to continue playing. We continue to have to change army lists every time a codex comes out because they keep changing stuff, and if we want to stay even somewhat competitive, then, that also means new models most of the time.
A really good example is the Dark Eldar and Squats,(and I know the debate over these has been around for years). They release a new army, then they stop supporting it by either doing nothing with it, or releasing sub par models(in the case of the Dark Eldar) and then they stop supporting it, which in the end, comes down to the same thing. In the case of sub par models, we were left with the option to convert, yet, now they pretty much taken that option away from us by discontinuing their bitz system, leaving us with having to buy bitz packs, if we can even get the bitz we want/need in order to do said conversions.
Also, take into account the "specialist games". (Blood Bowl, Mordheim, and Gorkamorka were my personal favorites). They release them, then stop supporting them entirely, again leaving a lot of us with the feeling that we have ended up wasting our money on them because people don't want to stay involved in a game that gets few or no updates, and no new minis. So, in the end, they just end up being a quick "money grab" for GW.

I'm sure I'll probably think of more to say later, but, I have errands to run.