Bartertown.com

lately I have noticed alot of posts for sales and or trades where the person posting the items up for grabs have stated that they don't ship first and then giving an ebay ref.

Personaly when I see that I more or less just ignore the post from then on.


Is this site somehow connected to ebay or something.

If so why even bother with having ref numbers for here,I thought the whole point was to get refs here to use here or am I just missing something.

In the case of someone buying, I strongly doubt many sellers would ship first.

BTown has no connection to eBay whatsoever.

People use eBay as an alternate generic reference for general business ethics, as a backup / confirmation to their BT references.

eBay ratings look nice in sigs but I think that's about it.

Just make sure to familiarize yourself with the fraud claim process.

I always ignore any references from outside sources. Aliasing isn't hard to do. A lot of people are afraid of getting ripped off so they use ebay as a collateral. Some just think it helps. Please be careful of outside references with newer bartertown members. Stick to local sources only.

JohnHwangBT wrote:In the case of someone buying, I strongly doubt many sellers would ship first.

BTown has no connection to eBay whatsoever.

People use eBay as an alternate generic reference for general business ethics, as a backup / confirmation to their BT references.

Again, I find issue with your statement here. You are so new on here and yet you are trying to pass yourself off as the master of all. You are WRONG, I never pay first. I have been here long enough and have a high enough rating that I can demand it.

You want me to buy your stuff, you better be willing to ship it first, even if it is a cash deal. I will also never ship my stuff on a cash deal until I have payment.

Stop trying to use your eBay reference as truth and getting on these discussions with your agenda. Any good trader on here knows that eBay means NOTHING!!!!

Stop trying to make your point so that noobs think that eBay is acceptable here. IT IS NOT!!!!

Just keep working on your trades and eventually you will get high enough to be able to command that others make the first move.

Now to the initial post

Gaijin18 wrote:lately I have noticed alot of posts for sales and or trades where the person posting the items up for grabs have stated that they don't ship first and then giving an ebay ref.

And they won't get ANY older/more experienced traders to bite. I was interested in some stuff that someone had and they insisted that I send my money first. They had a ZERO trade rating and tried to use eBay status as why I should send first. I laughed and said forget it.

Gaijin18 wrote:Personaly when I see that I more or less just ignore the post from then on.

Perfect idea and one that every trader should take heed from.

Gaijin18 wrote:Is this site somehow connected to ebay or something.

NO, NO, NO!!

Ekister

ekister wrote:

JohnHwangBT wrote:In the case of someone buying, I strongly doubt many sellers would ship first.

BTown has no connection to eBay whatsoever.

People use eBay as an alternate generic reference for general business ethics, as a backup / confirmation to their BT references.

Again, I find issue with your statement here. You are so new on here and yet you are trying to pass yourself off as the master of all. You are WRONG, I never pay first. I have been here long enough and have a high enough rating that I can demand it.

You want me to buy your stuff, you better be willing to ship it first, even if it is a cash deal. I will also never ship my stuff on a cash deal until I have payment.

Stop trying to use your eBay reference as truth and getting on these discussions with your agenda. Any good trader on here knows that eBay means NOTHING!!!!

Stop trying to make your point so that noobs think that eBay is acceptable here. IT IS NOT!!!!

Just keep working on your trades and eventually you will get high enough to be able to command that others make the first move.

I'm only speaking for myself, and I continue to find issue with YOU trying to put words in my mouth. Stop speaking for me, I can do that just fine. Intead, try focusing on understanding what I actually say before opening your yap.

If you want me to ship before paying, good luck with that - it's just not going to happen. And stop presuming that you and I would ever trade - again, not going to happen.

Getting back on topic, because I actually trade with people who may not have established solid BT Feedback, I *will* use eBay Feedback as a collaborating reference. To say that eBay Feedback has no weight here is a pretty foolish thing to say, beacuse some of us have no other way to determine whether we would even entertain the notion of doing business with someone.

Heck, consdier the number of posts you have made, and the number of deals you appear to have concluded - just goes to show that a high BT post count and high BT Feedback rating has nothing to do with whether a person is actually someone you'd like to deal with. Again, I would suggest that you just concentrate on speaking for yourself, rather than presuming to speak for others such as myself.
________

I have to wonder whether you have some sort of mental condition. My reply, which you quoted in toto, clearly states eBay and others are an *alternate* reference.

Nowhere am I pushing any agenda, aside from the notion that people can use (or ignore) whatever information is provided.

Nowhere do I propose that eBay Feedback replace BT Feedback.

So now I gotta wonder if you're stupid, crazy, or just pathological.

Clearly, we don't belong in the same sandbox. And clearly, I could give a rat's ass about your trying to shout me down. So for the sake of BT harmony, I suggest you simply ignore my future posts. But if you think you've somehow earned the "right" to be a jerk, well kiddo, you got another thing coming...

Hey now,,,wasn't trying to start an arguement,was just curious about the ebay thing.

If you two want to fight like babies, do it over PM please. I'd hate to start removing posts for hijacking or flaming.

Go ahead and nuke both of our posts. It's probably better that way.

JohnHwangBT wrote:I'm only speaking for myself, and I continue to find issue with YOU trying to put words in my mouth. Stop speaking for me, I can do that just fine. Intead, try focusing on understanding what I actually say before opening your yap.

I am putting no words in your mouth, just correct the cr#p that is coming out. You are sending the wrong message that others who have been here awhile do not want sent.

JohnHwangBT wrote:If you want me to ship before paying, good luck with that - it's just not going to happen. And stop presuming that you and I would ever trade - again, not going to happen.

Nor do I want to trade with you, but if you ever wanted something of mine, you will find that I won't be sending first. Others with a rating like mine will be the same.

JohnHwangBT wrote:Getting back on topic, because I actually trade with people who may not have established solid BT Feedback, I *will* use eBay Feedback as a collaborating reference. To say that eBay Feedback has no weight here is a pretty foolish thing to say, beacuse some of us have no other way to determine whether we would even entertain the notion of doing business with someone.

Sure, as a type of reference, but the original post was about people with little to no Bartertown experience/trade rating insisting that others send first, especially cash. Those people, regardless of eBay rating should not be able to demand that those with a MUCH higher rating send first. I was just expressing my opinion that nobody with a rating over 50 should send first to a noob.

JohnHwangBT wrote:Heck, consdier the number of posts you have made, and the number of deals you appear to have concluded - just goes to show that a high BT post count and high BT Feedback rating has nothing to do with whether a person is actually someone you'd like to deal with. Again, I would suggest that you just concentrate on speaking for yourself, rather than presuming to speak for others such as myself.
________

If you are questioning whether I am making up things, you are sadly mistaken. All of my trades are legit, and in fact I have at least 10 others that have never been posted. Also, my total posts are nearly all on discussion. I don't send a post saying "PM'ed ya." I may have once or twice because I was making a second attempt to get a response after a PM, but not as normal practice. Something you seem to have grabbed onto to try and artificially elevate your post count, something you said you were going to start doing. Nice.

Also, who really cares what the other person is like. I am certainly friendly with those I play with here and I don't associate with others that I find offensive. I have no way of knowing how, or how not, someone behaves in the real world. This is an anonymous site with some fairly decent protection against retalitory individuals.

I would also tell you that I tend to over trade my stuff to others and often throw in extras to enhance my reputation. Contact anyone on my trade reference list, find out how fast I ship and how well its packaged and generally how good the deal was.

Also, please take a look at the number of new people I traded with. Nearly half my trades are with people that have less than 10 trades. I work well with noobs because I am honest, trustworthy and a highly reputable trader. You sir, are not there yet.

JohnHwangBT wrote:I have to wonder whether you have some sort of mental condition. My reply, which you quoted in toto, clearly states eBay and others are an *alternate* reference.

Nowhere am I pushing any agenda, aside from the notion that people can use (or ignore) whatever information is provided.

Nowhere do I propose that eBay Feedback replace BT Feedback.

So now I gotta wonder if you're stupid, crazy, or just pathological.

Clearly, we don't belong in the same sandbox. And clearly, I could give a rat's ass about your trying to shout me down. So for the sake of BT harmony, I suggest you simply ignore my future posts. But if you think you've somehow earned the "right" to be a jerk, well kiddo, you got another thing coming...

I am not trying to shout you down, simply letting others know of my opinion. Sorry it is at your expense, but your statments are so far out of wack that I am doing my best to help those who are new here, so they don't think the norm is to accept eBay trades as reality, that Bartertown references, posts and time here mean a lot and often can tell you who the honest ones have proven to be.

Stop saying silly things and I won't come back at you. If you think I am being a jerk, sorry, but your posts bring out the best in me. I've been here longer than you and I will still be here when you leave, period, end of story.

Now to Ms. Alsiae - This will be my last post to Mr Hwang. I won't be commenting on anything he has left to say in this thread. I may make more comments to others as they rise. I WILL be watching Hwang though and I will continue to post comments about his silly little ideas when I feel they are warranted. If you have issues, have Lin, Sid or Adam contact me. I am still waiting for an apology from last time you got involved with something with me. I find it interesting how fast that one died last time.

ekister wrote:Also, my total posts are nearly all on discussion. I don't send a post saying "PM'ed ya." I may have once or twice because I was making a second attempt to get a response after a PM, but not as normal practice. Something you seem to have grabbed onto to try and artificially elevate your post count, something you said you were going to start doing. Nice.

Because BT deletes old threads, I can't verify your claim here.

I still don't see the significance of what post count has to do with trustworthiness or reputation. If people believe that a self-generated number has any intrinsic value, that's their business.

But based on your advice to "improve" my post count, I have deliberately chosen to "belt-and-suspenders" all of my PMs so that people know to check their PMs. You should be happy.

I work well with noobs because I am honest, trustworthy and a highly reputable trader. You sir, are not there yet.

AHEM.

Excuse me?!?

My trade history (on BT and eBay, and everywhere else) clearly demonstrates me to be honest, trustworthy and and highly-reputable. For you to say that I'm "not there yet" is as insulting as it is false.

Clearly, we don't belong in the same sandbox. And clearly, I could give a rat's ass about your trying to shout me down. So for the sake of BT harmony, I suggest you simply ignore my future posts. But if you think you've somehow earned the "right" to be a jerk, well kiddo, you got another thing coming...

I am not trying to shout you down, simply letting others know of my opinion. Sorry it is at your expense, but your statments are so far out of wack that I am doing my best to help those who are new here, so they don't think the norm is to accept eBay trades as reality, that Bartertown references, posts and time here mean a lot and often can tell you who the honest ones have proven to be.

Please. If you actually have a useful post count, then you'd know that typing in ALL CAPS == SHOUTING according to standard Netiquette.

And FWIW, I'm doing my best to help as well. The difference is that I weight the value and filter the content of my information sources differently. That is a personal preference, and nothing is "out of whack" with that.

Stop saying silly things and I won't come back at you. If you think I am being a jerk, sorry, but your posts bring out the best in me. I've been here longer than you and I will still be here when you leave, period, end of story.

Did it ever occur to you that you can disagree peacably? That you don't need to use loaded words like "silly"? That you don't need to insult people that you disagree with?

I don't think that time here matters much either, again, because it's under the user's control.

To me, what matters most is externally-generated feedback - what others say about someone. I believe in Public Feedback, so I can see if people are happy, or if there are issues. And the more of it I can get, the happier I will be.

Anyhow, I'm glad that you and I are done. I'm sure that BT will be better for it.

Okay.

I'm about to step out of "character" for myself here...

Shut the hell up.

Ek... We do and always have gotten along fine. You say you're done, and I take you at your word. You have nothing to prove to this guy, so you can stop. One note I will make, though, is that he is correct about the use of loaded words. You'd get a far better response to edit certain words and phrases out of your posts.
I hope you aren't offended. None was meant... just trying to step in & stop this.

Hwang... You made your point. You're a new kid on the playground, but you think you've been here long enough to hang around with the big kids. Fine. You can stop waving it around, now. We all see how big it is.
Personally, you're getting on my nerves, too.
Your eBay rating doesn't mean anything here, PER SITE ADMIN (and that is all that matters) because, this is NOT eBay. Don't take it personally, nobody's means JACK here.
Your notions about the propriety of certain trading ethics is understandable, due to your lack of experience around here. Don't develop your opinion based on thoughts and ideas you've developed over the span of a few months, and you'll do far better for yourself.

Now, to shut the heck up about this and TRY to get back onto the ORIGINAL poster...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

lately I have noticed alot of posts for sales and or trades where the person posting the items up for grabs have stated that they don't ship first and then giving an eBay ref.

Yes. You have. they are on the rise. As has been suggested, and as you have already stated that you do, ignore these people and move on. They aren't all scammers, but that is how the scammer works.

Personaly when I see that I more or less just ignore the post from then on.

Wise decision. Me, too.

Is this site somehow connected to eBay or something.

Only inasmuch as every site on the internet is connected by a few mouse clicks. Aside from that, bartertown has NO affiliation with eBay.

If so why even bother with having ref numbers for here,I thought the whole point was to get refs here to use here or am I just missing something.

No. regardless of what some people want to think, you are NOT missing something. You are correct.
If someone wants to be respected here, they have to earn it, not take it.
Do your trades, (preferably) take part in discussions, get your ref & post count up, and you'll be golden.


See, here's the deal...
Your references on eBay talk about how well you were there. Unfortunately, it is less of a trust based organization and, theoretically, winning an auction is a contract... blah, blah, blah... If a seller scams you, you have some (alleged) means of getting help from them. How someone behaved there is not necessarily a reflection of how they will behave here.

Ref's here are a proof of how you act in an entirely trust based situation.
Look at those with 100+ ref's. They have successfully completed 50 or more trades. That is a lot.

Add in post count, now.
Post count is a representation of how long someone spends hanging around, so to speak. A thief gets in and out. He may return to the scene of the crime, but he does NOT hang around. A lot of posts means that the person is established and, furthermore, that he cares about the site.
Generally speaking, you don't get 1000 posts in a few years by posting ads and replying to ads.
Assuming you follow the rules, you post 52 posts a year in each trade thread. Assuming you have something from EACH of the 22 trade threads to get rid of, you would have to post once in each thread EVERY WEEK for a full year, almost, to get there fast.
Take things down to more reasonable numbers, and you will see just how big of a deal 1000 posts is.

Yes, Regardless of what a minority of people want to believe, those numbers matter.

So, Gaijin18, if you are still paying any attention to this thread, I hope all the penis waggling didn't scare you off, and my post helped you.


Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:Ek... We do and always have gotten along fine. You say you're done, and I take you at your word. You have nothing to prove to this guy, so you can stop. One note I will make, though, is that he is correct about the use of loaded words. You'd get a far better response to edit certain words and phrases out of your posts.
I hope you aren't offended. None was meant... just trying to step in & stop this.

None taken and thanks for stepping in with your opinion. It is valued and respected. I don't know why the other party has gotten under my skin. Perhaps it is because I have lost a couple of possible trades because of the "you pay first cause I have a perfect eBay rating." Common sense has returned and I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. You also make some excellent points in your post. Thanks for helping.

MagickalMemories wrote:So, Gaijin18, if you are still paying any attention to this thread, I hope all the penis waggling didn't scare you off, and my post helped you.

Ekister

MagickalMemories wrote:Shut the hell up.

Hwang... You made your point.

Don't develop your opinion based on thoughts and ideas you've developed over the span of a few months, and you'll do far better for yourself.

Eric

Eric,

Duly noted and message received.

I just hope that all of my future deals go as well as my past deals have.


/John

I have to say this was an interesting post to follow and gave me some insight on some things I did know and and reaffirmed something I knew