Bartertown.com

Hey everyone. I am a new trader on the forum, with a few trades/transactions under my belt. But i seem to have an issue with getting references posted. after the transaction is complete everyone seems to be happy but i am not getting any feedback.
i thoroughly communicate, post details about what i have, and even make sure there are always pictures available.

is there something i should be doing to help this?

i know im new and im doing relatively small trades/sales/purchases but im still doing my best to make everything work out good and leaving references of my own with the good experiences i have. i just want to record to reflect my actions to make future trades possibly easier for all.

also i hope this is an ok place for this post.

Actually, this is EXACTLY where you should be posting this.

That said, I'd like to preface everything below by stating that leaving references is strictly voluntary and is in no way policed or required by Bartertown. Everything below is OPINION - most of which can be considered OFFICIAL opinion. The operative word there being opinion.

People who don't leave references tend to fall into a few categories:
1) Scatterbrained. This can be someone like me, with a crappy short term memory, or someone like Porkuslime, who's probably got 10 trades going at any given time.
2) Careless. They just don't care about leaving references. This could be ignorance of their importance or youth/immaturity of the individual we're talking about.
3) Passive-aggressive. They had a problem with the trade. They don't want to bring it up to you and they don't feel it was bad enough that you deserve a negative. This could be, really, ANYTHING that causes the person to feel that way.

Now, I'm not making any kind of prediction or judgement on which you fall into. I'm just saying those are the major categories you'll see.

I've got two categories of advice. Past trades and current/future trades

Past Trades:
Send a PM to everyone who "owes" you a reference. Remind them of your trade and that you (I hope) left a reference for them. Remind them that you're new here and that references are important to you for securing your place on the site as atrustworthy trade partner. Ask them to (a) leave you a positive reference for your trade or (b) ask them what you might've done not to deserve a positive from them and how you could rectify that for both, your trade with them and any future trades. Tell them you want to be a good trader and valuable member of the site so, if you've done something wrong, any input or advice would be welcome.
If it's a newer trader, like yourself (say, a score of 20 or below), you can probably disregard the red text. They're unlikely to have a strong grasp of what makes a good or great Bartertowner.

Current/Future Trades:
Make the giving and receiving of references part of the trade discussion. Casually mention that, at the end of the trade, you'll leave each other positive references and see if they agree. Something like, "...and once we've both received the items we're expecting, in the condition we're expecting, we can exchange positive references. Sound good?" Hopefully, you can get a commitment out of them at that point. If you ever have to ask them to leave a reference, you can remind them that you agreed to leave ref's for each other.
I'd even use that statement as part of the trade summary.
"I'm sending XYZ and, when you receive it as promised, you'dd send 123. When both of us are happy with the deal, we'll leave each other references. If either of us has an issue, we'll get in touch with the other ASAP, so he can resolve it. Right?"

Something I do in my trades, which I ALWAYS recommend that others do, is practice "First Risk, First reward." In other words, if you're paying me or shipping to me first, I expect that I have to leave you a reference before I receive one from you. The reverse is true, as well. You could add THAT in your summary, as well.
"Furthermore, since you are sending your half first, I will leave you a positive reference at the end of the trade before you leave yours for me. First risk, first reward."

I will put this right out here, on the record, right now. This is for everyone, not just the OP:

If you are in a trade with someone and, as part of your trade agreement, you promised to exchange positive refs or tell the other why you don't want to leave one (as described above) and that person doesn't keep his end of the reference bargain after you do, I will GLEEFULLY remove the positive reference you left for that person if they don't leave yours or give you the promised explanation. At that point, they've violated the trade agreement (not providing the promised ref or the promised explanation), so do not deserve the ref.

Eric

I really like that last part, where you are willing to remove the reference if they don't, at least explain why they won't leave you a reference. Noted for future transaction.

thanks a lot. i knew that it was optional. having it part of the agreement is a great idea.
i would like to be a trusted part of this community and have records agreeing with that.
again thanks!

One of the easiest things you can do, after you PM them, is to put an "Owes me a reference" list in your signature. People who are going to be repeat users don't like having their name splashed all over, and will often make an effort to fix it as soon as they notice. If they're not a repeat B-Towner, at least other people who are going to trade with you can make a note of it and may view you more favorably.

Forsaken Poptart wrote:One of the easiest things you can do, after you PM them, is to put an "Owes me a reference" list in your signature. People who are going to be repeat users don't like having their name splashed all over, and will often make an effort to fix it as soon as they notice. If they're not a repeat B-Towner, at least other people who are going to trade with you can make a note of it and may view you more favorably.

I think this can backfire though. When I see a trader with more then a few names on a 'owes me a reference' list, I start thinking why do people not want to leave them a reference? Maybe the trade didn't go so bad as to leave a neg or neutral, but maybe they were difficult to deal with, or just not very accommodating. ESPECIALLY if the trader who has said list has very few references.

Forsaken Poptart wrote:One of the easiest things you can do, after you PM them, is to put an "Owes me a reference" list in your signature. People who are going to be repeat users don't like having their name splashed all over, and will often make an effort to fix it as soon as they notice. If they're not a repeat B-Towner, at least other people who are going to trade with you can make a note of it and may view you more favorably.

Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesnt.

As a rule when I ship something (if I ship second or simo) or when I am being shipped something I always include a obligatory
'ill (or can you) let me know when it arrives and we can trade refs' as a friendly reminder.

There have been situations when I have not left feedback instead of leaving negative, I probably should have though.

thanks for the responses. i will just have to plan accordingly in the future because it seems like some of the exchanges that have already gone through( though rather recently) will not end in any further response from the other party when i inquire about their satisfaction or a reference

demoN1N3 wrote:thanks for the responses. i will just have to plan accordingly in the future because it seems like some of the exchanges that have already gone through( though rather recently) will not end in any further response from the other party when i inquire about their satisfaction or a reference

Happens to everyone. Look at Tordeck's signature, some people you will find just don't care. And since feedback is not mandatory, they don't "owe" you it at all. There are a lot of good responses here though, just do your best during the trade. Make sure everything is packaged well, have good communication with your trader, make them feel good about the trade. Simple things that will welcome them more in leaving you good feedback. Putting in a reference clause in your trade agreement is another way, or the signature thing, but I cannot stress it enough that feedback is not mandatory and saying a person "owes" you it is wrong.

Good luck with your future trade partners!

Ryan

Putting in a reference clause in your trade agreement is another way, or the signature thing, but I cannot stress it enough that feedback is not mandatory and saying a person "owes" you it is wrong.

A trade agreement is a kind of contract between two traders. Now, if those two traders agree that leaving a reference at the end is part of the trade, then (per my earlier statements), I maintain that feedback does become mandatory at that point and is "owed."

Again, I'm not going to voice an opinion that everyone should have to leave references as a general rule. When it's agreed upon in advance, however, I will certainly be in favor of requiring it.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

Putting in a reference clause in your trade agreement is another way, or the signature thing, but I cannot stress it enough that feedback is not mandatory and saying a person "owes" you it is wrong.

A trade agreement is a kind of contract between two traders. Now, if those two traders agree that leaving a reference at the end is part of the trade, then (per my earlier statements), I maintain that feedback does become mandatory at that point and is "owed."

Again, I'm not going to voice an opinion that everyone should have to leave references as a general rule. When it's agreed upon in advance, however, I will certainly be in favor of requiring it.

Eric

My apologies, I should have structured the sentence better. I agree if it is in a trade agreement it would be "owed" since it would be part of the trade. I merely meant the people who have their signatures that say "References owed to me by:<names>" are wrong. If it was part of a trade agreement and they did not leave one it would qualify as a violation of said agreement. If it wasn't in the trade agreement, nothing is owed to anyone.

Ryan

Ah.
Fair enough.
Myself, I don't mind the sig lines, but I can see your point re: "owed." I think it's more a matter of semantics, as the same thing can be said but in a different way. "People who didn't leave a ref for our trade," for example.

Eric