Bartertown.com

With the huge proliferation of games that are now be introduced via Kickstarter, including games by well established companies like Wyrd Miniatures and Mantic Games, I was wondering if anyone thinks it would be worthwhile to create a forum specifically for trading Kickstarter pledges or their various parts. I have noticed that some people are posting these things within the appropriate forums for the game type, but it would seem to me that Kickstarter pledges are almost a thing of their own. Since Kickstarter pledges can consist of a mix of just about everything related to any type of game, it just seems to me that it would be easier to group the things into their own forum. For example, the Deadzone Kickstarter ended just recently and the various pledge levels and add-ons consisted of miniatures, terrain, rulebooks, art, dice, etc. It seems that it might be easier to just list my pledge in a single forum, rather than posting it is several different forums. Of course, many of us, including myself, ending up posting in multiple forums in any case, but it may save some clutter to give Kickstarter its own forum.

Of course, the site administrators may not even like the idea of Kickstarter pledges or their components being traded on the site. However, the current rules do not appear to restrict trading this type of item. Given some of the long wait times involved with Kickstarter, I could certainly see that they may wish to avoid what could become a real hassle. I mean, if someone happened to trade one of their faction starters out of their Deadzone pledge, which does not ship until 12/2013 at the earliest, I could easily see a lot of bad trader and back out reports.

I for one would love to see this, but maybe there is just not the kind of demand that I believe may exist. I have backed three games quite recently and I know that I will definitely not need all of the items that I will receive (I went suppression team on the Deadzone Kickstarter), so it might be nice to set up a deal early so that I can pick items that people may want. Anyhow, I just thought I would throw this out there.

I think it's a great idea. It's easy to get caught up in the zeitgeist of a Kickstarter, and then the buyers remorse comes in with the ridiculous amount of miniatures you'll eventually get in the mail. +1 from me.

We have no problems with you trading your KS items, once you have them in your posession.

There is an unfortunate problem with having this kind of forum. It is advertising for the KS in question, and Bartertown only allows advertisements from our paying advertisers. We do not allow links to KickStarter for anyone who is not an advertiser with us.

We have been discussing the possibility of coming up with a small advertising package ("banner and thread only" kind of thing) amongst the Admins, though. It is only in the discussion stages right now, and not near the point where we'd bring it to the rest of the staff for THEIR p.o.v., even... so WAY away from presenting it to the general public.

Eric

Ads for potential items pose the high possibility of backouts. If the KS fails to deliver the models, the a BO is certain.

As far as advertising them, that's against the rules. Thats free ads for the compnay with the KS.

All KS items can easily be listed, in the usual forums.

If I'm not mistakem, Btown can only add a section if it deletes another. I seem to recall something about that before the restructuring a few years ago. Thus why WM/H was combined.

EDIT: DOH, MM beat me to it.

kturock wrote:If I'm not mistakem, Btown can only add a section if it deletes another. I seem to recall something about that before the restructuring a few years ago. Thus why WM/H was combined.

Nope. We can add as many new sections, forums, etc. as we want.
The reason for the restructuring 5 or so years ago was simply for the sake of streamlining. For example, WM and Hordes were pretty slow forums individually, which saw MOST ads being simple reposts of ads from each other. By combining them into one "Privateer Press Games" forum, it streamlined things a lot. The main page used to look very haphazard before we went through the effort. Same thing for the subforums.
This meant, of course, that "strange bedfellows" were created in some cases (the wholly unrelated board and video games forums, as an example), but those combinations were made of necessity. They were just too infrequently used to justify having their own forums.

But I digress...

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:We have no problems with you trading your KS items, once you have them in your possession.

Possession is definitely the key word here. I have seen at least a few ads offering to buy or sell entire pledge levels, or even parts of a particular pledge level. Are we not allowed to sell components of a pledge, or for that matter, an entire pledge level, until the actual items arrive? If that is so, it may be prudent to clarify this in the forum rules.

DroopyMcCool49 wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:We have no problems with you trading your KS items, once you have them in your possession.

Possession is definitely the key word here. I have seen at least a few ads offering to buy or sell entire pledge levels, or even parts of a particular pledge level. Are we not allowed to sell components of a pledge, or for that matter, an entire pledge level, until the actual items arrive? If that is so, it may be prudent to clarify this in the forum rules.

It is questionable to offer to sell anything that is not in your possession. Even the best of times, where someone is selling a friend's army, have led to long term issues and struggles. Here you are talking about a kickstarter, where the timeline is by no means certain. I've got kickstarters that were due last year that I'm waiting on. If I had offered to sell that to someone else, then someone else would be relying on me remembering the whole deal.

All in all, a good rule of thumb is to never offer anything for sale that you do not have in your possession and cataloged already.

Karyle wrote:I think it's a great idea. It's easy to get caught up in the zeitgeist of a Kickstarter, and then the buyers remorse comes in with the ridiculous amount of miniatures you'll eventually get in the mail. +1 from me.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, I mean, look at me trying to move some of the minis out of my Reaper Kickstarter.

With that said, I feel like anyone trying to trade a Kickstarter package they don't possess should have their thread locked with a little note about "This product is not currently in your hands, don't try to trade it" and I think a Kickstarter specific forum potentially detracts from the business our advertisers do, and I love this site, so it needs to keep its advertisers.

If you look at Kickstarter from the point of view of retailers it is a horrible, horrible, disgusting thing, and it's only getting worse. Huge companies like Steve Jackson Games are using Kickstarter to crowd source games like the Ogre release, and in so doing, they're cutting off dollars from your FLGS. I was in my FLGS last Wednesday, and I was really impressed by the fact that 16 people were there for a Dreadball league. Of course, the guy working at the store was less thrilled, because they had sold 2 copies of the game.

I firmly believe a Kickstarter forum would slowly cost BT advertising dollars, just as it is slowly costing your local FLGS revenue, and therefore it's a bad idea.

Just my two cents, but I've only used Kickstarter twice...Reaper and Veronica Mars.

I'm in the other camp.

I think Kickstarter will be vital for the proliferation of new games, and I want more access, not less.

I'm potentially interested in buying into Deadzone in the post-kickstarter pledge-boost period, and while I wouldn't fork over my money to just anyone, neither would I expect someone to be out of pocket on my behalf for an extended period.

I'm sympathetic to the concerns about LGS, F or otherwise, but you need to honestly look at how many risks these guys can afford to take.

I remember my store bringing in VOR: The Maelstrom--epic fail. And then all that dead stock is left in inventory.

Now, though the LGS may lose out on a bunch of the initial Deadzone (or whatever) sales, there is an established consumer base for all the future expansions, and who can draw through attraction new players to new core sets.

DenverZeppo wrote:Huge companies like Steve Jackson Games are using Kickstarter to crowd source games like the Ogre release, and in so doing, they're cutting off dollars from your FLGS.

This reads like a joke to me. Sure, SJG, courtesy of their card games, has re-established itself--but there have not been many people playing OGRE during the last 10 years or so, and the Kickstarter can re-ignite a whole new wave. The LGS is only "losing" dollars it would never have earned, evidenced by the fact that they weren't selling much OGRE to begin with!

Look at the sheer number of AWESOME offerings from Kickstarter in the last year alone. The people who supported the BONES Kickstarter have benefited the entire buying community by providing the start-up money for something like 8 or 10 times the number of plastic figs that Reaper thought they could launch on their own.

There were 30 Bones at launch, with a goal of adding another 30 to the line--and instead, gamers everywhere will be able to choose from something like 320 less-expensive plastic figs. Everyone wins. Because of this Kickstarter.

With exception of the KS forum piece, I could not possibly agree more with sorrow.

Any LGS owner who is mad about a Kickstarter is being short sighted. They need to look at the long-term benefits.

Eric

You should not be able to sell KS items you do not have in your possession.

Case in point : Mike Nystul.
Cairn Rpg, Axes & Anvils, etc.

I pledged & its extremely unlikely I will see anything. Funds were wasted, misappropriated, whatever.

Nystul's Magic Aura will be crossed out of my AD&D Players Handook.

In all honesty, I believe nobody should sell/trade ANYTHING not already in their possession. At this time, it's not a RULE, however. It is a good rule of thumb that, if you are trading something not in your possession, you should make your trade partmer aware. With VERY limited exceptions, I am just NOT going to trade with someone who does not have the items in hand.

Eric