I just passed on 10 items with make offer/inter. trades

[JohnHwangBT]

It's an exclamation of exasperation.

[Ironhide]

You are coming off as trying to scare people away from international trading. And since BT is an international community, it seems rather discriminatory.

[JohnHwangBT]

There aren't scare tactics being used, just facts. The facts are that international trades take longer. That isn't a scare tactic, it is a fact that there are more people handling the package, and the package covers more distance. International trades cost more. Fuel alone adds cost, along with the different people who have salaries to cover. Again, not scary, but simple fact. And there is inherently more risk. There are more things that can go wrong. Yes, the base number may be going from 1% up to 3% (for example), but it's still larger.

It's a personal recommendation that people are free to agree, disagree, follow, or ignore. I'm just a regular person on the site. I don't wear some Mod hat and pretend tell people what to do. And unlike some who seem personally offended, I don't have a dog in the fight. It's not like I *need* to trade internationally, though I have done so in the past. I'm disinterested here.

If the new Btown rule is that we can only give advice that is blessed by self-interested Mods like HZ, this isn't anywhere close to the sort of place I like to participate in discussion.

[Ironhide]

Then why not just say, "I personally dislike international trades because they take longer, cost more in shipping, and have a higher risk of getting lost because they change hands more in transit."

When you go using words like "fact", "averages" and throw percentages in there; you seem to be trying to persuade the reader that international trades are inherently bad.

If you take the proper precautions, international trades are no more risky than a domestic trade.

[MagickalMemories]

@ Ironhide:

True, but the precautions we typically use for US trades cost substantially more internationally (tracking, etc.).

It's an exclamation of exasperation.

But, what does it mean?
If it's improper to spell it out, you can PM it to me.
I'm deathly curious.

Thanks.
Eric

[HarlequinZero]

It's not like I *need* to trade internationally, though I have done so in the past. I'm disinterested here.

If you are, as you say, disinterested, why do you crusade against international trades every chance you get? See the following from earlier in this thread:

What makes buyers/traders more likely to contact me?

Keep it simple. List individual prices for items that you're willing to sell individually. Include domestic shipping. Refuse to do any international deals - for the extra cost, delay and risk, it's just not worth the extra time or effort.

JMFCoaS. The guy asks for advice, and I give it. There was nothing condescending about it. Why you guys are being up in arms about it, I have no idea.

The poster asked what would make buyers or traders more likely to contact him. The part I highlighted in red has absolutely NO bearing on his question yet you felt the need to toss it in there. And yes, you ARE the first person in the thread to mention anything about international trading. Not exactly the actions of a disinterested party.

If the new Btown rule is that we can only give advice that is blessed by self-interested Mods like HZ, this isn't anywhere close to the sort of place I like to participate in discussion.

So John, what about the fact that after my post Ironhide, fitterpete and EZ mac all chimed in to back up my PoV? Are they, too, self-interested users? From the US?



@fitterpete: I am very sorry to derail your thread like this. (I'm even more sorry to be arguing on Christmas.) To answer your original question, I never bother with people who put in their ads "Make an offer." It's usually a waste of time because they tend to be fishing for high bids. In fact, I always feel the whole "Make an offer" bit feels more like the user is holding a silent auction rather than a trade ad. The only times I approach these sorts of deals is if the person has something I REALLY want and even then I'm kind of hesitant.

As far as my own posts go I always put up the prices I want for what I've got. Usually I mark them as firm just because I'm not a fan of haggling via PM. The WORST hagglers though are not those who try to lowball me. The hagglers I can't stand are the ones who come to me with trades out of left field. For example I put up that I am willing to trade what I've got for Sisters of Battle and I get a PM telling me this guy has a Warmachine army he wants to trade me. Huh? Where'd that come from?

-HZ

[JohnHwangBT]

If you take the proper precautions, international trades are no more risky than a domestic trade.

That is patently and provably false. In a domestic trade, all that is involved is the domestic postal system. In an international trade, you have a 2nd domestic postal system along with an international customs transfer, and often an overseas shipper. If given that we know that customs has caused problems for people in the past, and that all postal systems have occasional problems, the additional risk tied to these additional organizations is non-zero. Therefore, international trades are inherently more risky than a domestic trade.

Any systematic failure analysis will prove this conclusively beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any claim to the contrary is a flat out LIE.


@HZ - If I could [ignore] you, I would.

[gohkmkelvin]

At the end of the day, all trades must be within one's risk appetite, domestic or international. This thread appears to have derailed somewhere dramatically. Could we not return to the original topic? While I agree that the tone of JohnHwangBT's posts are condescending and somewhat arrogant, that doesn't detract from the fact the man has an opinion, and he has the right to share that with whomever he choses. Can't we just agree to disagree and have a moderator lock this thread and move on to more productive things?

Perhaps we could also request of the moderators an 'ignore' or 'block' function? Or does that already exist and I need a new pair of glasses?

[JohnHwangBT]

I'm sorry if my message comes across as having a bad tone. If you should read anything into it, please use exasperation, surprise, and frustration as the primary emotion. If someone wants to argue the points, let them. Share your opinion and feel free to attack the facts as I've presented them. But to argue from emotion, that's not helping anyone.

With respect to the ignore function, the site has this, but HZ can't be ignored because he's a Mod.

[fitterpete]

gohkmkelvin go get them to lock your own thread.There are a few people who found the original topic interesting .
HOW ABOUT IF WE JUST STAY ON TOPIC NOW.
Thanks for the input on international trading all ,but you can't argue with a brickwall so please let it go.Take it to PMs please.
MY original intent in the thread was to make people aware that they are loosing out on potential trades and sales with "make offer". I think it has done that.
Even if a bunch of guys come on now and say it doesn't matter to them ,it is still a FACT that SOME trades are missed out on because of "make offer".
Pete

Oh and .....MERRY CHRISTMAS! YOU BLOCKHEADS!

[gohkmkelvin]

Amen the to back to topic sentiment, fittepete. You won't find any disagreement from me there.

[Adunaphel]

Perhaps we could also request of the moderators an 'ignore' or 'block' function?

@HZ - If I could [ignore] you, I would.

Seeing as two members asked (or at least hinted at) for a "block". You can add the member's name to your Foes list. That effectively blocks that member's posts. You can always click on their post to show it if you dare...

Back on thread:

I ONLY check "make offer" posts if there is something I REALLY want. I think a lot of newer traders use this because they are unsure of how to value their items in a useful "Bartertown" way.

I can't tell you how many offers I have made that were just ignored. I have gotten some VERY indignant replies about me "lowballing" which makes me laugh because they left it up to me. Lastly, I have gotten some of my best deals here by making an offer. Really superb trades.

Karl

[gohkmkelvin]

Ah, the function DOES exist. Back to Specs Savers for me, then. I wonder how much transition lenses cost? This might be a good time to get them. But I digress .

[Ironhide]

If you take the proper precautions, international trades are no more risky than a domestic trade.

That is patently and provably false. In a domestic trade, all that is involved is the domestic postal system. In an international trade, you have a 2nd domestic postal system along with an international customs transfer, and often an overseas shipper. If given that we know that customs has caused problems for people in the past, and that all postal systems have occasional problems, the additional risk tied to these additional organizations is non-zero. Therefore, international trades are inherently more risky than a domestic trade.

Any systematic failure analysis will prove this conclusively beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any claim to the contrary is a flat out LIE.


@HZ - If I could [ignore] you, I would.

Then prove it, with something besides words. Show verifiable, statistical analysis and actual examples of more packages being lost internationally than doemestically. Otherwise, what you are saying is a sterotypical falsehood.

[govannon]

If you take the proper precautions, international trades are no more risky than a domestic trade.

That is patently and provably false. In a domestic trade, all that is involved is the domestic postal system. In an international trade, you have a 2nd domestic postal system along with an international customs transfer, and often an overseas shipper. If given that we know that customs has caused problems for people in the past, and that all postal systems have occasional problems, the additional risk tied to these additional organizations is non-zero. Therefore, international trades are inherently more risky than a domestic trade.

Any systematic failure analysis will prove this conclusively beyond a shadow of a doubt. Any claim to the contrary is a flat out LIE.


@HZ - If I could [ignore] you, I would.

Then prove it, with something besides words. Show verifiable, statistical analysis and actual examples of more packages being lost internationally than doemestically. Otherwise, what you are saying is a sterotypical falsehood.

I do know tracking down lost packages works better here than when shipped to other countries. I called the post office about a lost package and in less than 2 days they called around and found my package. It had made a couple wrong turns somewhere and I got a call from the local PO telling me it was on the way.

My wife is filipino and I try not ship anything using the Philippine postal system. Packages "get lost" there a lot. When you send a birthday/holiday card, you need to write on the back of the envelope NO CASH INSIDE or something like that to get a better chance of it making it to who you are mailing it to. I am sure there are other countries that are the same. I am not saying stuff like that does not happen here, but I would bet it is not nearly as much. If we have to ship something with value, we only use UPS or Fedex because then it does not have to go through the PO there.

If you don't think there is some more risk shipping internationally, then you are fooling yourself. What about all the people that won't ship to Italy, it is more of a risk to ship there.