the_trader AKA Joe Bartle - Involved Parties Discussion

A Special Place for people who have been Banned from Bartertown for egregious violations of the rules.
Permission is required to post here.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
MagickalMemories ( 826 )
Lord Logorrheic!
Posts: 16390
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO - USA

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by MagickalMemories » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:35 pm

I went to that invisionfree.com and registered. Wouldn't let me post... ida know i must be missing something. MM could you post a link to this, and a request for them send thier information to me. I seen that you had the ability to post.
Well, WIP is a forum hosted by invisionfree.. If your egistered on invisionfree, that could be a problem.

Also, if you tried to start a new thread, that could be a problem as well. Many forums requore that you reply to XX number of threads before you can start a topic of your own.

I'll get your link out for you.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

bluemeenie ( 110 )
Expert Trader
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:48 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by bluemeenie » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:06 am

I am actually taking witness to something I thought I would never see happen on the web.....fraud being prosecuted.


good job guys!!!
Image

Kugelblitz ( 0 )
New Trader
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:00 pm

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Kugelblitz » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:27 pm

Pm will be sent along serpentine(at)neo.rr.com

BTW I AM an admin on "http://z11.invisionfree.com/Work_In_Progress/index.php?" so the possessive for was correct. Sadly I am not in front of a PC as much as I would like. Several of our posters have put the pertinent info up on our board about the Hull police and so forth. Anyone with questions can pm me at kugelblitz00(at)gmail(dot)com

Nice work.

Regards,

Auzzie ( 42 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:14 am
Location: MI, U.S.A

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Auzzie » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:23 am

It was though W.I.P and Yahoo IM.

TrooperPX ( 104 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:56 am
Location: "Upstate" New York, USA
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by TrooperPX » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:49 pm

To all parties involved, if you haven't by now, you should shortly... receive an e-mail from the investigating Hull PD officer.
Let me turn your original sculpt into an army!
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=87597

Norseman ( 374 )
Bartertown Watchman
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:40 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Norseman » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:58 pm

Ok I recieved a reply from the UKPD.

I was a little disappointed with the turnout but overall I am generally satisfied.

Here is the basics of the Email

The suspect for this case, BARTLE was arrested and interviewed on the 11th February 2009. During the course of that interview he fully admitted to the offence. The decision was made that he would receive a caution. This was for a number of reasons:

Offence fully admitted
No victim statements
Unrealistic to expect yourselves to travel to England for a court case (if later denied)
Financially not viable
Due to unemployment, unlikely to be awarded compensation

My Reply...
Would his admission, be available for our use, for a small claims court case.

Also, what was his manner like when asked about this situation. Was he smug or was he apologetic.

Can you offer any advice on a direction of action we can take, to get either our money back or the goods we bought off of him?

Can you put pressure on him to send us the goods we bought?

What can we do?

Basics of his reply:
You will not be provided with a copy of the interview tape but can make anybody aware that he has accepted what he has done.

BARTLE apologised for what he had done and appeared sorry.

BARTLE does not have the goods to send to you nor money to return.

I cannot put any pressure on him to send you anything.

You could consider a small claims court appeal. But please remember where this claim will be and the costs incurred for any appearances. Will the cost outweigh the loss you have already had?


I have followed up with a few more requests.

bluemeenie ( 110 )
Expert Trader
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:48 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by bluemeenie » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 pm

So let's get this straight...a man admits to stealing 1000's of dollars worth of stuff to the Police in England and the English Polices recourse to an admission of guilt to the theft of 1000's of dollars is for him to apologize for his behavior?


Not charge him..
Not send him to court for a magistrate to deem punishment
no community service...


Just opps I'm sorry.


You know there are some things that make me feel glad I live in the US.



Also:
no victim statements
What do they call all the emailed and phoned in reports to them? Suggestions?
Image

BrooklynMike ( 22 )
Apprentice Trader
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:36 am

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by BrooklynMike » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:02 pm

Frankly, I'm not too surprised. The police don't relish dragging an unemployed disabled teenager into court, and we recognize that the outcome would likely be the same: he is unable to pay or provide goods and imprisonment is probably impractical and would only serve to further harden him. Maybe, just maybe, he is sorry enough to back off working the internet boards to steal money and goods. And, if not, sooner or later he will cross the line and land in jail... hopefully before depriving too many more people of treasure. Not too much consolation for those of us who suffer financial loss, but what can you do?

I, too, am struck by the 'no victim statements' qualification: I know many of us filed reports with the Hull UKPD, substantiating them with paypal and other evidence. It would be useful to know that exactly we didn't provide that would have been expected.

Many thanks and kudos to those who drove this forward to this point. I've learned a valuable lesson at not too steep a cost, and hopefully the rest of those who were victims of this crime can reconcile as well.

insidius ( 76 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1651
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:12 am
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by insidius » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:24 pm

Yeah, it's *edit* to be sure.

This is part of the reason I will not do overseas trades, and I am VERY careful about who I trade with and how those trades are carried out.

At least he was actually arrested and brought in for an 'interview.' Some satisfaction has to be had there, it couldn't have been a pleasant feeling.
mon·ey: noun; a good that acts as a medium of exchange in transactions.
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.

USPS Mail Fraud / / FBI Internet Fraud Center

Norseman ( 374 )
Bartertown Watchman
Posts: 2112
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:40 am
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Norseman » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:35 pm

I didnt notice the "No Victim Statements" before... I will ask about it.

I want to mail Joesph Bartle a legal drafted letter that will detail an impending lawsuit in small claims court. It is called putting them on notice. The letter itself is called a "Notice of Inpending Legal Action".

It will detail the evidence, so I will need copied of all the Paypal records to include.

I will contact you directly for what I need.

We have a pretty strong case. And should be quite easy to move forward. The only detail that I need to get is whether we can have someone stand proxy. Which means have someone show up there in court for us as a group. This would require us getting a volunteer from Hull to go for us. Basically burning a a few hours for us to get this guy to face Justice.

We have the evidence we have a legally obtained documented confession.

I think this would be as simple as showing up and dropping off the papers to the judge. It is pretty cut a dry.

If he doesnt have the money his wages or welfare would be garnished. we would get our money back but it would proabaly take a year.

Please share your thoughts.

User avatar
locust ( 104 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:51 pm
Location: Gainesville Fl.

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by locust » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:46 pm

I say tack his thieving carcass to the wall.

I know that if I were living in England (which I don't) anywhere near Hull, I would stand as proxy if allowed, in order for folks to get back what was stolen. I'm sure that there is some upstanding Bartertowner in the area who wouldn't mind doing so.
Go on, laugh! But one day, you'll be sitting in your house feeling all safe and secure... Then you'll look over and I'll be there... Doin'... stuff!

bluemeenie ( 110 )
Expert Trader
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:48 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH
Contact:

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by bluemeenie » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:32 pm

You know also I just realized that if he is a minor, and living at home. Then can't his parents be held responsible for damages?

I know in the US if you get caught stealing/breaking and entering and do live with your parents then the victims do have recourse in civil court against the parents.
Image

Auzzie ( 42 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:14 am
Location: MI, U.S.A

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Auzzie » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:07 pm

He isn't a minor (in America at least), he is 19. Legally in America, thats an adult but I dont know what it is in England. Either way, he knew what he did was wrong. He knew it was illegal also. This is basically telling everyone in here that if you steal from people on internet trades and you dont have a job and 'disabled', you will just asked by a cop a few questions and let go totally free. At least take his 40k stuff that we 'gave' him away from him.

I think the whole victim thing is basically having one of the victims come into the police department and making a legal statement, not an email/phone call.

Still, thats BS. I am glad they found him. Maybe that scared the poo out of him enough to maybe just maybe coming back to some of us and returning our stuff. Yea I doubt that :(

Is everyone who got ripped off by him from America?

insidius ( 76 )
Millenium Trader
Posts: 1651
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:12 am
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by insidius » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:12 pm

I don't think he is a minor. If he were, his parents would be responsible, yes, and this conversation wouldn't be taking place right now. I think he's 18 or 19 unless I'm mistaken, I can't recall.

I think Auzzie is right about sending a message, though, and what this thread says to potential criminals on the site.

And regarding what you should or shouldn't do now that you've heard from the police, I have only this to say:

Before you light your torch, be 100% certain you want it to burn, because it will burn.
mon·ey: noun; a good that acts as a medium of exchange in transactions.
Money is a good like everything else; if your rating is lower, you ship first whether money is involved or not.

USPS Mail Fraud / / FBI Internet Fraud Center

Auzzie ( 42 )
Journeyman Trader
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:14 am
Location: MI, U.S.A

Re: Taking action on the-trader - Involved Parties Discussion

Post by Auzzie » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:37 pm

http://www.myspace.com/rockula

Says he is 19 on his Myspace and told me he was 19 when we talked.

Locked

Return to “The Hall of Shame”