Backout: Sekai

They're not Bad Traders per se but they are REALLY annoying. Tell us about them here. READ THE RULES.

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opuswild ( 18 )
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Backout: Sekai

Post by opuswild » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:42 am

I made a deal with Sekai (Nicolas) to purchase a lot of Force of Will cards off of him.

Since he was in the USA and I was in Canada, I asked him to set a price including shipping since shipping would be more to Canada, which he did - $55 USD.

Once we had confirmed the details, I sent Nicolas the money and he said he would ship the following day.

Later on, he messaged me saying that shipping is more than he expected and if he is to ship it to me, he would need more money.

I refused to send him more money after the deal had already been made (which would include me paying conversion/paypal fees a second time). At this point he decided to cancel the deal and refund the money, which still ended up in me losing money on the conversion fee (not much, but still - losing money for nothing is not exactly ideal).

Then, to top it off, he gave me a bad reference saying that it was ME that backed out of the deal.

Do not deal with this person. Terrible ordeal.


*****MESSAGE LOG FOLLOWS*****





Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:41 am
by opuswild

I was not unwilling. I let you set costs. I paid them. You wanted more money - that's not how trades here work.

I just saw you did a refund. That's fine. I still paid out the pypal conversion cost though so I still lost a few bucks for nothing.

If you think this is a fail trade due to my actions, then your perspective is highly skewed.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:34 am
by Sekai

I issued you a refund of the money I received.

You are unwilling to work out a deal that doesn't leave me screwed.

Been trading her for forever with very few issues, and you are one sketch individual. Not quite sure what fees you paid, since it appears you sent the money as a gift. I didn't ask you to send money as gift, nor did I ask you to cover any 'fees', that was your decision. Anyways, good luck. It's unfortunate you were unwilling to work something out.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:30 am
by opuswild

I am unwilling? Kidding me? So you've sent me my $80 CAD back then correct? Because I am not eating fees and being happy about it.

If you're backing out now, Im definitely reporting this as a bad trade. You confirmed the trade, and I let YOU set the shipping cost, and now you're backing out because you decided to check costs afterwards and want me to give you more money and pay more fees? That is ludicrous.

You better have at least sent enough to cover my costs. Because that's just ridiculous man.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:16 am
by Sekai

Refund sent. Sorry you are unwilling to work this out.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:14 am
by opuswild

Im not paying more than I already have on this. I said to name a price for shipping and you did. Then i paid the paypal fee too, which on top of the conversion fee ended up costing me around $80.

This is why I said to let me know what you want for shipping. You cant just go changing things now... I can't afford more than that anyways, was already more than I thought with the fees but I bit the bullet anyways.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:59 am
by Sekai

Well, I'm disqualified for the First Class shipping because of the weight. Like I said, I'm heading out to the post office tomorrow to get the actual shipping cost. According to USPS/Fedex/UPS, the cheapest shipping will be is around 25 bucks for the size of the box I'm using, but we'll see. The box I'm using is as small as possible as I could manage with the amount of cards I'm sending plus bubblewrapping around the outside. If shipping is 15 bucks, I have no problem sending out, but if it's 25 or more than that, then we're going to have to work something out.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:53 am
by opuswild

Hoping you're still shipping tomorrow... That was the deal after all. Also the size is usually the biggest determining factor. Weight doesnt matter quite as much (I worked for fedex for a few years).

Let me know what happens. Thanks.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:44 am
by Sekai

The box is actually way heavier than I anticipated, going to go up to see how cheaply I can ship it tomorrow, but it's actually 5 pounds instead of 2 like I guestimated.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:08 pm
by Sekai

Yessir!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:03 pm
by opuswild

Money has been sent - please let me know once you've send the cards and provide tracking.

Again my info is:

***OMITTED***

Thanks a lot Nicolas!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:38 pm
by Sekai

There's a couple dual stones in there. White/Green, I think.

I'm planning on shipping out tomorrow morning, yes. As far as tracking, I think the Customs number works as a tracking number for US to Canada, but not sure.

My paypal is <Temporarily removed by staff>
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:06 pm
by opuswild

Oops - should have said Dual Stones haha - force of habit!

But yes, please confirm, I'll send the money soon thereafter. Thanks.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:56 pm
by opuswild

100% interested. If you can ensure that you ship sooner rather than later with tracking number, I can send the money right now.

Also I was wondering, are there any dual lands with these cards, or any cheshire cats?

Regardless - if you can provide tracking and ship by tomorrow, I'll send the money now.

Thanks!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:29 pm
by Sekai

Hey bud, you still planning on picking this up? I have another person interested in buying it as well, just waiting to get money from you.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:09 am
by Sekai

Works fine by me!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:08 am
by opuswild

Okay then, I'll send you the money tomorrow then and you can ship Thursday? Thanks!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:05 am
by Sekai

Thursday morning probably?

<temporarily removed by staff>
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:05 am
by opuswild

So $55 USD? That works for me! Whats your paypal?

Also, when can you ship?

Thanks!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:00 am
by Sekai

They are in great condition, there are two Rezzards in there that are in played condition, but nothing worse than played. Uhh. As far as shipping to Canada, I'm not too sure how cheap I can get it. Probably be about 15 bucks so add on an extra ten?
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:52 am
by opuswild

Beautiful! So theyre in good condition then? Seems like they are from the pics.

If so, I'd love to buy them. Im in Canada but can pay the difference in shipping of course.

Do you have a list by chance? I can send you money asap just let me know what you'd like including shipping.

My address is:

***OMITTED***

Thanks!
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:31 am
by Sekai

All of the cards in the lot are tournament viable, actually!

https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=57AECEAD
All those are commons and uncommons,

and
https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=57A97253
Rares, Super Rares, foils, etc.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:15 am
by opuswild

Hey there is this still available? Are any of the cards still legal for tournies? Condition? Very interested! Thanks!

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: BTR: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:30 pm

Admins, please delete this. Not a bad trade since no items were ever exchanged. Rules are quite clear about this.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: BTR: Sekai

Post by 3eland » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:41 pm

Seems to me sekai was not sure how shipping to Canada was going to be and tried to be helpful by only charging you 10 from a guestimated 15 shipping cost. But then once he found out the true shipping cost charge being greater (and as a Canadian myself, 10 dollars is super cheap to ship to us) he asked for a little extra.

Then, by reading the pm's, you refuse to work with him and he is forced to refund your money.

If anything this would qualify as a back out.

Unless stated otherwise by an admin, I have temporarily moved this to the back outs and updated the title.

Ryan
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 12/11/1

AOS
KO - 2/7/0 ~ Khorne - 3/1/0

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:48 pm

Everything I stated in my bad feedback is plain for everyone to see here. I tried to work out something with you after I discovered shipping was way more than anticipated. You refused to work out any kind of deal and turned quite rude. I feel like people should be warned about this kind of negative behavior.

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:50 pm

In addition, you left a message out of the chain. This is the last thing I sent to him:

Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:49 pm
by Sekai

I'm sorry you feel that is skewed, but I'm not looking to lose that much money on this transaction. The fact you can't grasp or understand that is quite disheartening. I've left you negative feedback for pulling out of the deal, being unwilling to work something out, and frankly being kind of rude this whole time towards me while I've done nothing but try and be understanding.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by 3eland » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:42 pm

Okay, now that I am at a PC.

One of the things I try to encourage all trading partners is to make up a finalized agreement that goes over everything. It helps prevent situations like this. That being said,
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:00 am
by Sekai

They are in great condition, there are two Rezzards in there that are in played condition, but nothing worse than played. Uhh. As far as shipping to Canada, I'm not too sure how cheap I can get it. Probably be about 15 bucks so add on an extra ten?
Here we can see Sekai is not sure about shipping to Canada. We can confirm this by this comment here:
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:38 pm
by Sekai

There's a couple dual stones in there. White/Green, I think.

I'm planning on shipping out tomorrow morning, yes. As far as tracking, I think the Customs number works as a tracking number for US to Canada, but not sure.
Having done many US trades myself, I know it is not cheap to ship here, many traders have backed out due to this (this is so common that I do not even worry about it now). Shipping to the states is also not cheap. A small package through Canada Post (using Canada Posts smallest box) is still around 17 after tax and fees. Since you have had trades from the US to Canada, this should have flagged you. I would have asked for Sekai to find out the exact shipping cost.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:44 am
by Sekai

The box is actually way heavier than I anticipated, going to go up to see how cheaply I can ship it tomorrow, but it's actually 5 pounds instead of 2 like I guestimated
Once Sekai packaged the box, he noticed it was heavier than he "guestimated" and informed you that he would check to see how it would impact shipping. Then, when Sekai went and got the actual amount (online), he notified you about the difference.
Re: H: Force of Will Collection, W: Paypal
Sent: Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:59 am
by Sekai

Well, I'm disqualified for the First Class shipping because of the weight. Like I said, I'm heading out to the post office tomorrow to get the actual shipping cost. According to USPS/Fedex/UPS, the cheapest shipping will be is around 25 bucks for the size of the box I'm using, but we'll see. The box I'm using is as small as possible as I could manage with the amount of cards I'm sending plus bubblewrapping around the outside. If shipping is 15 bucks, I have no problem sending out, but if it's 25 or more than that, then we're going to have to work something out.
Now from what I can see, is Sekai trying to be a fair trader and knock off a couple of bucks from the guestimated 15. Then, when he found out it was going to be 25+, he wanted a little more to help cover the difference. Which you replied to that you were unwilling to pay since he already said 10 and that was the deal.

You claim you sent the money as a gift, eating the fee. So it would seem you too were trying to be a good trading partner and help him out. The conversion fee Paypal puts on CAD to USD is not something Sekai has control over and is something you would have to take up with Paypal if it was not refunded to you. All banks do the same (my wife works at one). They purchase the CAD (or USD) dollar at a specific amount to convert to USD (or CAD). That is why the selling dollar is different than the buying dollar. However, when Sekai issued a full refund (and in turn not keeping anything for himself) Paypal should have refunded you the entire thing. At least it did me when I bought an item online and turned out it was a Chinese scam artist so I requested a refund - I sent it as a payment though so perhaps there is a difference.


What this all boils down to is an error on Sekais part for not figuring out the shipping. Something that the two of you could have worked out. You are correct in that a trade agreement was made and so you are not at fault for that. He backed out of a trade since the shipping was too much and nothing could be agreed upon.

Personal opinion - I would take this as a learning experience. US to Canada shipping is expensive, that is why you see many traders on here refuse to deal with Canada. That is also why I never send money until they confirm the shipping amount. As I know many others do the same.

We will wait to have an official Admin ruling, however from what is here, I am ruling this as a Back Out rather than a BTR. The feedback is valid for any trade you make on Bartertown and I do not see anything that was not shown here. So if you would like your feedback removed, you must appeal to an admin within 30 days.

Hopefully you guys can learn something from this unfortunate experience.

Ryan
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 12/11/1

AOS
KO - 2/7/0 ~ Khorne - 3/1/0

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:53 pm

Heck. If you can provide me with actual proof that you are out money due to the conversion back and forth, then I'll happily send the money. Unlike you, I don't want to leave my trading partners SOL.

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Gav99 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:46 pm

I may not have right to comment here, but this strikes a little close to home over what's happened to me in the past. Felt I needed to add my 2cp, despite barely having the time to do so today.

Definitely a back out on this one, as no goods ever exchanged hands.

Sekai - You deserve a slap on the wrist here. NEVER guestimate shipping unless you're willing to eat the difference if you're wrong! Not only are you wasting your buyer's time, but you're also taking them out of the market for other potential deals on the same items. Your WORD is your BOND, so misquoting the shipping is all on you.

If Sekai left bad feedback for Opuswild, I don't believe it should stand. Opuswild did nothing wrong. But, on the other hand, I believe Opuswild has every right to leave bad feedback for Sekai for breaking the deal due to his negligence on getting a proper shipping quote.

As for Opuswild being unwilling to re-negotiate, that is his RIGHT! He struck a deal he was happy with and Sekai broke it. Opuswild is under no obligation to strike a deal for more money.
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Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:00 pm

Opuswild was absolutely under no obligation to strike a deal, just as I was under no obligation to continue with a deal that I felt was no longer worth my time. This is a back-out, absolutely. Never argued that it shouldn't be, only that he posted it as a BTR at first. However I would argue that it is absolutely my RIGHT to refuse to deal with that person then, and since he made no effort to make the deal work for both people, he is just as much at fault for the back-out as me. Not to mention being rude.

No reason to post here at all, really. It's an undisputed Back Out.

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Gav99 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:21 pm

My reason to post here wasn't to dispute a back out, it was to say that you are not taking responsibility for your screw up Sekai and you're pushing blame at Opuswild. The back out is absolutely NO FAULT of Opuswild. It is TOTALLY on you. You quoted him $55 (YOU gave him YOUR word) and he agreed to THAT price. Later, you found that YOU screwed up and tried to get him to bail you out. Opuswild has ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY to do so. Ergo, YOU and ONLY YOU backed out of the deal (as there was NO OTHER DEAL struck to back out of).

Let me reiterate: Opuswild was happy with $55 shipped, as were you. You both AGREED on the exchange. He PAID you for the exchange. You found you screwed up and REFUSED to fulfill the deal. You backed out! Anything beyond that is irrelevant.

Admit you screwed up, take it on the chin, Learn from it and move on.
Trading on Dakkadakka under the same name.

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:22 pm

Are you blind? I've agreed that it's a back out. Sorry, but I'll disagree with the rest.

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:26 pm

You've shared your opinion twice now. I'm allowed to have one as well, so how about you cease your harassment.

Gav99 ( 548 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Gav99 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:47 pm

Firstly, I never asked your permission to post here Sekai. My note about posting was to the mods/admin, for which you are not. You have no authority to tell me where I can and can't post.

Secondly, you accuse Opuswild of being rude, yet so far I've only seen you be rude and aggressive. Nothing Opuswild has said is rude. His responses to you have been in line with someone who is disgruntled at being screwed out of a deal.

You are very welcome to your opinion, but proclaiming falsities as fact is something else. Opuswild never agreed to any of your "re-negotiations" so he has not backed out of anything. I'm pretty sure if you were willing to ship them for $55 right now he would be fine with that, but you are not, so you have broken the deal. I can't put it any simpler than that.

I've said my piece as an arbitrary 3rd party bystander (I know neither participant), and none of what I said was meant in hate, anger, or anything other than trying to reason. You have every right to comment however you wish Sekai, but just realize that everything you say and do shows everyone how you truly treat people.


Mods/Admin: My apologies that my response here has caused a minor kerfuffle, as that was not my intention, but I hope that this at least sheds a little light on how Sekai is treating people with views other than his own.
Trading on Dakkadakka under the same name.

Sekai ( 132 )
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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by Sekai » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:09 pm

How I'm treating people with views other than my own? You've tried to force your opinion on me three times now. I don't share it, and I'm happy to just wait and see how one of the admins comes in and handles this. I'm disgruntled at a person coming in and trying to force his opinion down my throat, not rude.

Anyways, thank you for your three opinions, but once again, I'm afraid I don't share them. I would like it if you would stop trying to attack my integrity. I've had plenty of successful deals on here.

Once again, Opuswild, my offer stands. Please, prove to me that you've been forced to pay fees that were not refunded by paypal, and I'll be happy to cover them for you.

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Re: Backout: Sekai

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:21 pm

First:
Sekai shouldn't have to provide any money towards the refund. PayPal should've given back the amount taken, not whatever the current USD to CAN conversion was. A call to them should get that sorted out.

As for the rest... This definitely doesn't qualify for a BTR, as goods didn't change hands, but the back out is definitely earned.

In the end, Sekai, you gave a final total with no caveats. Opus paid that amount, then you changed it.
If you'd included any verbiage to cover your butt, we'd be looking at a different story.

For example, "$55 shipped (for up to $15 in shipping costs)" or something similar would have been precisely what you needed.

What it all boils down to is sticking with our word. I have literally LOST money on sales before because I quoted a price plus shipping, but woefully underestimated shipping costs. I've done it a few times (many years back) on eBay. I just sucked it up and sent the item. I called the lost money the price of an education and moved on.

My advice FOR EVERYONE is to (no surprise this is coming from me) START USING MORE WORDS.
The more detail we give in our trades, the more specific we are, the smoother things go. If you tell someone a book is in good condition with no description of the problems and no pictures, you're at risk that he will receive it and consider it in fair condition, rather than good. If you think shipping will cost $10, then quote your price as $X for the item and $X for shipping and note that you'll eat any overages )or that you'll eat them up to a certain $ amount. What I've done in the past is OVERestimate for shipping. I don't ship ANYTHING to Canada without presuming it will be at least $20, even if I' sending a single model. then I follow up with "I'll refund any shipping overpayment that's more that $1. This way, my trade partner can see right up front what my shipping cost was (from the label) and can know if he should expect a refund for any overage.

Eric

To clarify - This is NO attack on Sekai's integrity. I hold no reservations about that. I would gladly trade with him myself. I simply feel that he made an error in judgement... something we are ALL guilty of having on on many occasions.
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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