Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

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wsott1970 ( 132 )
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Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by wsott1970 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:22 pm

I was super excited for this to come out... but I keep running the numbers... and it kind of feels like a poorly constructed boxed set.

Is it just me (but not counting the Slaanesh Helald - and maybe the Fiends (though I find them to pretty much be a let down)) does this set seem inferior to just buying a Khorne demon starter and a Slaanesh demon starter???

I mean we all know that the contents will be hot for awhile, but then the characters will fall hard like they always do (because if you buy multiple box sets you will be trying very hard to get rid of the characters - just like any set)... and one of the character is a Flesh Hound that already exists in very nice molds/metal/etc...

I am bummed out about it and feel like it is one of the worst boxed sets ever (I know I am impacted a bit by already having a load of both basic demons... and metals of everything else - but still).

Christmas money grab vs Good boxed set???

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Sena

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by 3eland » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:37 pm

The new hound models, including the new karanak is so much better looking than the ugly finecast versions they have now.

The fiends are awesome and the Herald's sculpt is great. Plus, I don't believe it's a named character, so you can take more than one (the Enrapturess).

Since it is the only way to get the new sculpts, it's going to sell like hotcakes. The boxset price pays for the Khorne side alone, so you get the Slaanesh side for free. No partial units, everything can be used as a full unit, which you don't get from other box sets most of the time. You get the core rules for both 40k and AoS. And then finally some tokens.

Overall I can see people splitting this box for ages. I already know a bunch of people who preordered 2 or more.

I'd say Good Boxed Set 100%

R
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by MagickalMemories » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:07 pm

I hate the hounds. Even the character. Could have done better.

LOVE the fiends. LOVE the character. If I had need for any of them, I'd definitely be on the lookout for them.

I'm thinking we're going to need a trade thread for these. It's odd, though, since they're 40k AND Fantasy models. Not wholly sure if we should have one trade thread, or one trade thread PER FORUM.

Eric
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I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by Ambience 327 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:56 pm

Unless you think it would be too confusing, why not a single trade thread in one forum, and a pinned thread in the other with links to the primary thread? That way everyone will see it in their chosen forum, but everyone would be listing in the same place.

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by wsott1970 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:13 pm

I don't like any of the Khorne... but I prefer the metals for those...
The Slaanesh I think the fiends are a wash (If I didn't have metal I would want them) and the Herald is spectacular... an auto buy...

What I am saying is that if I wanted models for those armies (which I do) that I think the Slaanesh and Khorne starter purchased together (for almost the same price) seems like a lot smarter decision. Then I would eBay purchase the herald.

I think a set like Soul Wars or Blightwars were brilliant and I bought a lot of those... They were pretty to very good deals and in the case of Soul Wars came with a freaking $40 book (that you can keep or sell)... This comes with little beside the models.

I just feel like it is a cash grab set vs some of the brilliant sets they have done in the last few years... and no I don't mind... I just wish they had done a better job (so I could buy a lot of them - getting multiples of everything I want and sell the extras to help recoup a lot of the cost).

Just my opinion... but it was a set I was really excited about and then utterly disinterested. It should have more new sculpts and things not in the starters (as much as would be possible).

Thanks,
Sean

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by 3eland » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:55 pm

To someone starting Daemons, starting 40k/aos, adding to their Daemon army, etc? It is a GREAT deal. You save hundreds of dollars. That is not a cash grab. Cash grab - "A product designed primarily or solely with the intent of generating profits." They "lose" money with this boxset (let's be honest, we all know they aren't, but comparatively to full retail? They do).

This set comes with core rules for both universes + tokens + stories/fluff + 10 brand new models that you will not be able to buy separately for a while (they do this on purpose).

If you want to compare Start Collecting boxes and box sets, you're going to find a ton of variable differences in cost (and especially points). Why does the Fyreslayer Start Collecting cost the same as a Fyreslayer Magmadroth? Why does the Kharadron Overlords Start Collecting not come with a Battleline unit?

The Wrath and Rapture set, as a whole, is not a cash grab. Just because you don't like the contents or models, does not mean it is poorly constructed.

160 USD for W&R. You save approx 145.25 USD (this based on current prices of models which will most likely be more expensive once they get their own separate kits) + You get the tokens (if they are worth anything to you).
85 USD for the Khorne SC, You save 34 USD
85 USD for the Slaanesh SC. You save 32.5 USD
Buying 2 SC = 170 USD with a savings of 66.5 USD. So you pay 10 dollars more and lose out on 78.75 USD worth of savings.

The only difference in the SC and the W&R is you take out the Herald/Cannon and Chariot, but add a new Slaanesh Herald, 3 new Fiends, 5 new Dogs and a new Dog character.

Not a cash grab.

R
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 12/11/1

AOS
KO - 2/7/0 ~ Khorne - 3/1/0

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:11 pm

Hey, 3eland.
Quick question:

Are those prices in US Dollars, or Canadian PlayMoney?

LOL

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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3eland ( 70 )
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by 3eland » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:17 pm

I went to the US store for you guys ;)

I know our monopoly money scares you ;)

R
~Ryan~
I'm like superman, but without the super.

The rules for Bartertown can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45470
Helpful guide for sending packages to Canada: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=123125

2019 W/L/T ratios:

40k
Tyranids - 12/11/1

AOS
KO - 2/7/0 ~ Khorne - 3/1/0

MagickalMemories ( 826 )
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:07 pm

Too much color. Does not compute.

: )

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by wsott1970 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:35 am

"This set comes with core rules for both universes" - Those are not full core system rules books, but subsets of the rule books (if I understand what they are)... Not worth much of anything IMHO... Especially not when compared to the AOS 2.0 book in Soul Wars... The tokens are nice (but not sure if they are in the cards sets already - though Khorne being pretty much OOP maybe worth it either way).

And I think that models included in the Getting Started are better choices... That is an opinion, but Three Chariots vs Three Fiends and the Cannon vs Dogs I will take the SC boxes... Could be (is) tainted by me having fiends and Dogs (that I prefer or at best are neutral on) and no Chariots or Cannon...

I know that I am not even close to a new collector (and me having oodles of the Slaanesh troops and the fact that I prefer metal Khorne troops doesn't help)... but that set just isn't going to have me buying like Soul Wars or BlightWars... I will just buy the herald on the secondary market (as characters bottom out pretty fast) and the tokens maybe.

Almost everything is subjective (excepting the math but that still gets tied up in the desire for the different contents)... but what I am saying is that I was excited (which would have equated to multiple purchases) and now I am not even interested in buying one. I have bought many soul wars boxed sets that it is crazy... and I might even still buy one more Blightwars (Long after the fact and I believe other that the book contents lacking that boxed set is clearly superior to the similar SC Nurgle or the Stormcast Vanguard box).

I just feel GW made bad choices of what to include in the set (due to needing a new AOS set for Christmas - This is where the cash grab comes in)... and I think the fiends are not much better than the metal ones... the dogs I think are inferior to my metal and same with Karnak (also not IMHO a good choice for the character - it can't really be converted into much else)... and I do believe it is a cash grab to have a brand-spanking new boxed set out right before Christmas (at least in pre-order)... and that given a longer time period that set could of been given better contents and some other new sculpts.

They make mint on those sets... So much that the secondary market has little that isn't from a boxed set these day (try to go get some high demand bits from Stormcast non-easy to build sets - Maybe some great hammers or Prosecuter Trident and Shield and I could go on and on with that other armies - I have at least 10 AOS Armies and 3 40K and I have always been an active bit buyer - and how messed up that market is these days on price/availabilty)... and it feels like a mostly re-boxing of contents that are already in the SC boxes...

Like I said everything is (almost) always going to be an opinion... and those are mine.

I respect yours but disagree (due in part to what is in my collection and my biases ).

Thanks,
Sean

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by NorthWestWind » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:46 am

My local store sold 32 copies of it this weekend. Seems like some pretty good choices were made.
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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by wsott1970 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:00 pm

I stand where I am on it... and first waves of (almost) any boxed set do well... Also, like I said that box is better for newer players (which IMHO is what GW wants as the audience)...

I will pick off a the Slaanesh character once it bottoms out... and once people are trying to dump the basic demons out of the box I might even build another block of Khorne for cheap.

How about I go get a new box and you do get a Soul War of Blight War box and we trade?

Thanks,
Sean

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by MagickalMemories » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:14 pm

I think the problem is that people here are speaking two different languages.
Most seem to be discussing "value for my money," while wsott is discussing "value TO ME for my money." These are actually two different concepts. Both sides are correct, and both are incorrect.
If you're discussing the dollar value, then there's no (reasonable) arguing that it's a phenomenal deal. Someone who wants to start or flesh out either force is getting an amazing bargain on the models. On the other hand, if you only need the character model, because you have a completely fleshed out army, then it's definitely overpriced.

It seems to me that people who are arguing what is or is not a good deal need to keep in mind that THEIR p.o.v is not the ONLY p.o.v, and that p.o.v. is quite important in discussions like this.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by wsott1970 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:56 pm

That is what we are doing... (It) Is friendly... We all know what opinions are like... and I am not stupid enough to believe I am always right.

But in all seriousness, would you trade a box of Blight War for the new box (not a fair comparison due to Blight Wars maybe not being as easy to get a discount)? Would you even trade a Soul Wars box for it (probably fair comparison because Soul War has slowed on the value of the Stormcast and the current set is the new sexiness)? Would you trade a Slaanesh + Khorne started for it (I think the best comparison)?

OK, so now you have mentally answered that... answer it again in 1.5-2 months... and realize how long we were all buying Soul Wars just to trade it... I could probably buy a soul wars box right now and get well over half of the box price (discounted - even more) just for the Nighthaunts (and how long have we all been doing that). Not to mention it comes with a full rulebook/etc.

Any boxed deal is a good deal and I, generally, buy them even when I don't need them... This is the first boxed set in a long time that I flip-flopped on... I wanted it badly and then when I saw what was inside it and it just didn't compute vs the two starters... and the big thing (I agree) is that I have 60ish of that specific demonette mold and a vast amount of old metal flesh hounds. I also have 2-3 metal fiends and 30 metal bloodletters. Now those last two things I would still want (I don't know how many fiends, but say at least another 30ish bloodletters). I definitely want the Slaanesh Herald, but it is a bit too distinctive for me to want more than one. All of the other things in that box shade my opinions because I don't want them, but also because I think they will drop fast (especially the Slaanesh demonettes, All Characters [they generally do - in my experience], etc).

I would have preferred the contents of the starters... I would love to be able to trade for a pile of Khorne thrones/cannons... I would have loved to have seen a Khorne herald in that box (not the dog - and yes I have one in metal). I would have probably been jazzed about being able to get a lot of Slaanesh chariots. I also would probably jump at alternate versions of the bloodletters/demonettes (just different poses). I think they could have put together a complete Slaanesh/Khorne book to replace the Core AOS 2.0 that they didn't stick in there, or one of the books and have people swap them (mark the boxes to show which book), or just to stick an AOS 2.0 Core book in there... Anything really... I do want to see the tokens, and I will almost certainly get them (if they don't duplicate my existing ones).

I just think it isn't a well put together set (and I agree I am definitely in a different position than many others)... and I suspect it won't be a good set for trading (long-term)... I predict it will become difficult to trade the Slaanesh in its entirely (I also believe they should have ramped up the units in PL - because I don't see them as being highly desirable - other than the fact that they look great). I suspect it will become difficult to trade the Karnak. If I was doing this like I normally do (for profit) I would dump what I have mentioned and pile up the flesh hounds and the bloodletters.

I think that is what I really wanted to express (maybe as advice/prediction that was unwanted - but I like to share ideas) and then just to express the fact that it excited me then just became a disappointment (and ended in me canceling my orders).

The last counterpoint - I have more Nurgle than I need... I have more Stormcast than I need... I trade unwanted/extras (both armies) away pretty frequently. I have bought more than one set of Blight Wars (and still even possess 1.5ish of that boxed set), and I would still take another... and Vanguard is in decline (IMHO) and Nurgle is in decline (IMHO). People just always seem to want them, so it can't just be explained by the fact that I already have a lot of Khorne/Slaanesh. I am (to some extent) a businessman and if something is a good value long term I will take it... and I probably should have done quick swaps with the new set to dump the Slaanesh into Khorne just like I said... Then kept them for my eventual use or traded if I found I didn't need them.

I just wanted to share why I thought the way I did, and see counterpoints to help me do what I wanted -to buy it... because I love to buy things... but I just have not been convinced.

Thanks for all the opinions though!

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Re: Realm of Chaos: Wrath and Rapture - Meh?

Post by MagickalMemories » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:01 am

wsott1970 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:56 pm
That is what we are doing... (It) Is friendly... We all know what opinions are like... and I am not stupid enough to believe I am always right.
I chimed in because it seemed like there were people disagreeing with each other, and unwilling to see the side the other was presenting. Seemed like it needed to be said.
wsott1970 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:56 pm
But in all seriousness, would you trade a box of Blight War for the new box (not a fair comparison due to Blight Wars maybe not being as easy to get a discount)? Would you even trade a Soul Wars box for it (probably fair comparison because Soul War has slowed on the value of the Stormcast and the current set is the new sexiness)? Would you trade a Slaanesh + Khorne started for it (I think the best comparison)?
I'm not the right guy to ask this of. I wouldn't buy ANY of them, regardless of the deal they offered. I don't have time to buy them and sell the contents for a profit, I don't play any of the armies, and I'm actively looking to REDUCE my collected to just a couple armies, rather than expand.
Even before all of those things were the case, I am still not a valid person to ask, because I don't buy to split for profit, and wouldn't trade for something I had no need of. So, trading the contents of the one box for the contents of the other just wouldn't have been on the table for me.

Eric
Lower rating? You ship first.

Give me a sense of humor Lord. Give me the grace to see a joke.
To get some humor out of life and pass it on to other folk.


I think what this situation needs is some imagination.

"...I'm a nerd, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other nerds.” – Gilbert Lowell

Want my help with a BTR or backout? All messages sent/posted should be in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Otherwise, I just won't read it.

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