What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

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pretre ( 1340 )
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre »

3eland wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:16 pm
being able to fallback and just being able to shoot, period, was a definite bonus.
Keep in mind that you can only shoot if you have Fly or another special rule that allows you to shoot after falling back.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland »

Aye.

But even if that one unit doesn't get to shoot, the rest of your army can (as long as they didn't fall back as well). Or you're Wraithguard/Knights. They can fall back and shoot (Knights can even charge).

I kept killing units down to 1-3 models left and thinking "Good, it saves me from being shot at" but nope.

"I fall back" aaaand then the shooting lol.

I need to play more games but so far I like it.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre »

Yep, that is certainly a thing. :)
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by MagickalMemories »

3eland wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:16 pm
Played 8th today. I liked it.

Eldar are still full of SO much cheese. And yes, I was the one playing them.

The D-Scythe Flamers are stupid amazing. 5 models were taking out 10+ models per turn. Or easily 1 model units.

Disgusting. Like, I almost cried FOR my opponent.

Everything seems viable. Even crappy units that no one likes or takes. Everything seems to have some sort of role to play now.

I will say though that shooty armies will have a slight advantage. I was in combat Turn 1/2 most of the time, but being able to fallback and just being able to shoot, period, was a definite bonus.

Our gaming group (15 currently off and on, but 8-10 of us game regularly) will be switching to 8th. We already all got a group order in for indexes and starters and such.
So...

1) Where did you play?

2) Shooty armies have pretty much always had the advantage.

3) anything you DIDN'T like about the system?

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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland »

Played in my basement. Had some friends come over today(yesterday). We... found... the rules online.

For sure. Shooty is still strong in 8th. But being able to get into close combat turn 1/2 really helped.

I still need to play more to find things I don't like, because there will be I'm sure. From the games I played today (and watched), I'd say Over-watch changing is a little iffy with me. Flamers, as long as you start the charge out of their range, cannot hurt you. Same with any ranged weapon. I can understand why they did it but come on, if a unit of dudes is charging at you, you don't stand there and say "Oh, they are two feet further than our guns, we better just let them run at us".

GW keeps pissing me off with the Carnifex. Just stat it like the battering Ram it is meant to be and leave it. It's less resilient than a rhino... which is what it was designed to take out... I could go on for ages about Carnifexes...

One thing that is different that I didn't like, but I'll get over, is cover. You no longer get cover other than from terrain or if you have something blocking your body in some way. No more cover from shooting through units, standing behind terrain, etc. It needs to actually block you or you need to have the entirety of the base on the terrain feature. So if you are 3mm off the terrain, you technically don't get cover.

Like I said, we are going to need to play a lot more games to get a better sense of the game and how it is played. There will probably be rules that we don't end up liking, or might find things that break the game, but so far? We enjoy it. It's not as "simple" or "stupid" as people are making it out to be. However, other than referencing our unit sheets, there was VERY LITTLE downtime, and every game I played/witnessed today made it to turn 4+. THAT right there is awesome in my books.

Mechanicus are in a really good spot right now. Just saying... Nasty. Really, really nasty.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre »

3eland wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:53 am
I still need to play more to find things I don't like, because there will be I'm sure. From the games I played today (and watched), I'd say Over-watch changing is a little iffy with me. Flamers, as long as you start the charge out of their range, cannot hurt you. Same with any ranged weapon. I can understand why they did it but come on, if a unit of dudes is charging at you, you don't stand there and say "Oh, they are two feet further than our guns, we better just let them run at us".
Not that realism has anything to do with it, but there's a reason for the phrase 'Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.' Traditionally, folks have a tendency to waste their shooting before the enemy arrives. :)
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by kturock »

I'm liking it, a lot. It gets rid of all of the fiddly rules and BS rules that were put in because the designers wanted to make 40k 'different' than other minis games.
Fiddly rules and rules bloat just to have a special term to describe something; ie fleet of foot, hoove et c. Removing casualties from the back, giving chargers free extra movement.

I like that guns now actually hurt and can kill. The BS that it was a melee game more than a shooting game. Fantasy, set in a medieval time period, was more shooty than several editions of 40k. 40k is a sci fi game, with guns, yet even tanks wanted to get into hand to hand. I know we've all seen the pic of the tank commander wanting to charge into HtH.
Tankers want to sit back and shoot from a distance with little or no chance of getting over run my infantry with anti-tank weapons.

I always hated that armor, especially space marine armor, was tougher than a building and resilient to most weapons. I played a game in 6th ed? where the only way my opponent could hurt my marines was to drop the building on me. His weapons had less chance of hurting them, than of hurting the building; which had a better chance of hurting them than the weapons.

Tanks and APCs should be feared on the battlefield. The common trooper has nothing to stop them. Only special weapon, designed for anti-tank use should be able to harm them or other tanks. Now, giant monsters that are the equivalent of tanks or giant walkers that are tanks propelled by legs, should be able to hurt each other and mostly ignore non-anti-tank weapons. Yes, a pistol shot into a gunport can be a serious thing. But so is several hundred tons of vehicle bumping into you. How many car, truck or train versus pedestrian accidents have seen with the pedestrian not getting hurt; for get killed.

I feel the original fluff or feel of each army is returning. Marines, resilient and good all around. Eldar shooty, but fragile, with a couple special units to fill gaps. CSM like the regular mairines but with different toys and mindsets. Deamons powerful and equal to certain other units. Better at some but worse at others. Ork, bigger, tougher, more 'dakka' for a lack of a better word; but also needing to work in hordes. Needing numbers to stay strong; physically and mentally. Bugs, even more over-whelming hordes, bud of a simple mind. Guard, weak individuals, but strong in a group, with strong leaders and wonderful over-powered toys. [tanks]. Tau and Necrons. I have the latter, but both just seemed to be forces designed to sell more models with no real thoughts on units and tactics. Like Bugs, ideas taken from 'cool' movies and put into the game. Now, Tau is a stronger version of Guard. And Necrons a more mindless version of bugs.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland »

pretre wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:41 pm
3eland wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:53 am
I still need to play more to find things I don't like, because there will be I'm sure. From the games I played today (and watched), I'd say Over-watch changing is a little iffy with me. Flamers, as long as you start the charge out of their range, cannot hurt you. Same with any ranged weapon. I can understand why they did it but come on, if a unit of dudes is charging at you, you don't stand there and say "Oh, they are two feet further than our guns, we better just let them run at us".
Not that realism has anything to do with it, but there's a reason for the phrase 'Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.' Traditionally, folks have a tendency to waste their shooting before the enemy arrives. :)
Well they are silly. ;)
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by psiekier »

I feel like 8th is the spiritual successor to 2nd Edition. I am glad to see that a lot of models became more survivable, and that any single model is going to have a hard time overpowering and wiping out enemy armies, regardless of what wargear you give him/her/it.

I am going to miss some of the staples of the Games Workshop franchise - blast markers, flamer templates, that same "To-Wound" table we've been using for the past 30 years - but on the other hand, I think this any improvement to the game I've loved the most.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by 3eland »

Supposedly. And take this with salt.

8th has been THE biggest EVER for sales.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by psiekier »

3eland wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:42 pm
Supposedly. And take this with salt.

8th has been THE biggest EVER for sales.
It's the best boxed set since Second Edition, which was only better by virtue of containing the Second Edition rules.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre »

psiekier wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:37 pm
which was only better by virtue of containing the Second Edition rules.
Not sure if serious...
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by psiekier »

pretre wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:06 pm
psiekier wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:37 pm
which was only better by virtue of containing the Second Edition rules.
Not sure if serious...
I've always felt like Second Edition, if played properly, was the most fun. Necromunda (and, later, Shadow Wars: Armageddon) was based on those rules, and they worked really well for the kind of armies and players we had back then.

Like I said, I think I'm going to miss some of the staples, but 8th brings back a lot of the things that made 2nd so charming, while eliminating a bunch of the ridiculous crap that clogged up 3rd through 7th.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by spiralingcadaver »

I'm not really seeing the "charm" of 8th edition, but, minus some areas where I thought they went overly generic/simplified, and the stupid Power system, it seems like an improvement, esp. removing the really poor execution of formations.
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Re: What do you think about the "NEW" 8th edition changes???

Post by pretre »

Well, power system is optional and for pick up games. I think the idea was simplification, so I'm happy.
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