Starting a Sisters army with a Black Templar attachment

[MagickalMemories]

He has what looks like 2 Dakkajets (6 or 9 TL shots... S5, I think) that get double the # of shots when they Waaagh.
Looks like a unit of Meganobs with a Painboy & Warboss in a Trukk (? - I thought Meganobs were bulky... in which case, that many can't go in a trukk).
He's got a unit of Biker Nobs with a bike warboss and TWO GIANT UNITS OF LOOTAS!!!!

Those lootas get d3 shots per model per unit. you'll get your armor save, but they're S7! That's enough to instakill any of your sisters and can easily glance your vehicles to death (barring the Land Raider). Plus, they have a 48" range. If you can reach them, they can reach you!

IMO, you need to play aggressive against this army, and a little reckless.
If you win the rill for Turn 1, let him go first. He's going to do everything he can to get in your face FAST with his bikes and Meganobz. Let him get right up in your face.

Unload everything from your vehicles, pop open his trukk (try to surround him and arrange it so, if it scatters when you "pop" it, it can't go anywhere) and purge him with fire. You'll pop the bikes. They won't get an armor or cover save against your flames... but they're 2 wounds each.

Fire as much high AP on the Meganobs as possible. Anything that can bust that 2+ save. He doesn't have an invulnerable, so will rely on FNP 5+. If you can double his T, you can avoid that, too.

At high #'s, the Lootas are fearless. The trick is to get them down low. Concentrate on one unit at a time. Make him break & run.

Your TH/SS wants to go after the Meganobs. I'd throw ALL the rest of your BT towards the Lootas. If he puts them on separate sides of the table, split your BT as evenly as possible and go after them. If you're throwing BT down his throat, he'll have to decide between them or your Exorcists. Hopefully, he'll choose BT, since they'll kill the Lootas AND score you a Linebreaker point if they stay in his deployment zone. They can weather the fire a little better than Battle Sisters -the s7 doesn't instakill multi-wound models AND their vehicles are less important to you than the Heavies.

For ME, your biggest concern is strategy with your heavy flamers unit. They'll be REALLY REALLY valuable against the Nob bikers if you deploy them, but you'll probably be able to kill a whole unit of Lootas when they arrive, if you outflank with them. It is a kind of toss up. If it was me, I'd deploy them and cough up the emperor's flaming butthole on the Nob bikers. Let the heavies and BT mop up the Lootas (They're only 5+ or 6+ saves... I forget).

Your Seraphim, if possible, should deploy and move forward in such a manner that they can assault whichever unit they need to (bikes or Meganobs) - Just watch out for those Power Klaws!

How to handle the flyers depends on how well the rest of the game is going. If you're handling things well on the ground, you might be able to dedicate one or both heavies to shooting at the fliers at some point. If he's managing to really do a # on you, you might HAVE to. Then again, you might end up best off just ignoring them until you have the extra shots.

That's how I would play against this ork army.

[pretre]

MM, I'm gonna have to disagree with a lot of that.

The Trukk Squad is boys or Nobs, not Meganobs. Megaz are bulky and wouldn't fit that many models. The Bikes are almost certainly Nob Bikers. You're totally right that those are probably lootas though.

Pop the Trukk with an exorcist to slow them down and then focus everything on the nob bikers, including assault.

The Lootas really can't do much other than pop transports, which isn't going to cause much trouble. Just keep the exorcists so the front facing is pointed at the lootas.

Do NOT disembark your troops sisters unless absolutely no other choice. 3 extra bolters is not worth the loss of protection. Also, MM, his Heavy Flamers can't outflank, just the dominions.

[pretre]

Send the Seraphim after lootas and let them take opportunity shots/assaults on the way there.

Also, I like the idea of letting him have first turn, just deploy back far enough that he won't trick you into assault.

Trukks can get a pretty long distance assault, iirc.

[3eland]

He says they are "regular sized" so I think they are Ork Boyz so they can take the Trukk as a Dedicated. And then the Warboss or whatever the big guy is. Trukk hold 12 so makes sense.

[pretre]

He says they are "regular sized" so I think they are Ork Boyz so they can take the Trukk as a Dedicated. And then the Warboss or whatever the big guy is. Trukk hold 12 so makes sense.

Well, normal Nobs are 'regular sized'. Meganobz are bulky.

Assuming 2000 points, they have to be nobs there.

The Nob bikers are 50-75 points a pop plus warboss so that's a good 500-900 points there.
Lootas are 180 for each unit.
I forget how much dakkajets are but even at 150 each, the trukk unit needs to make up a lot of points.
Hence, it has to be Nobs.

[3eland]

He informed me he changed the list slightly to add a defense line for his shooters. So I think his game plan is to hide back with the lootas, assault with the rest.

Noted on the Nobs. Obviously an unbound list? Or are Nobs troops?

[pretre]

He informed me he changed the list slightly to add a defense line for his shooters. So I think his game plan is to hide back with the lootas, assault with the rest.

Noted on the Nobs. Obviously an unbound list? Or are Nobs troops?

You get one Nobs unit as troops per warboss.
So one walking Warboss to make the Trukk Nobs troops and one bike warboss to make the Nob Bikers troops.

The Nob Bikers are the more dangerous group once you kill the trukk.

[3eland]

Okay.

So stay to the back of the board first turn, let him come at me. Focus shooting on the Trukk first turn? With a defensive line that give the lootas a 4+ cover right? The 4+ cover on the bikers will be a problem until i can get into flamer range.

The Bastion, if placed well (assuming I go second, hopefully he doesn't force me to go first) could unload a lot of shots at his Lootas or bikes.

Also, wouldn't the advantage be mine to go first, stay back with everything and just shoot? Exorcists have 48" and HB have 36" If I place the Bastion up so it can hit everything on the board it should be able to do a lot of damage turn one. He won't have anything that can bring it down with shooting right?

[pretre]

Either way you are good to go first or second. Second allows you to ensure the charge on him though since he will almost certainly come towards you. First allows you to shoot the crap out of everything before it even moves.

Aegis defense line and lootas means he can go to ground for a 2+ cover save and still shoot at half efficiency, which is nasty.

As far as I can tell, he has to assault your bastion. Just keep it in your deployment zone and you'll be good.

[3eland]

This is what I am thinking in terms of some sort of plan (lol). Obviously this is based around not knowing what the battlefield will be populated with.

Bastion will be placed far enough towards the edge of deployment so as to cover most of the board. If he chills at the back of the board with his lootas I want to be able to actually hit them when the time comes.

Land Raider will be deployed sideways as a shield vs his shooting, my Sisters in Rhinos will be place behind it. If he cannot see it, he cannot shoot it. Exorcists will be placed at the far back of the board, S7 vs AV13 with a cover save should keep them fairly safe. The BT Rhino will act as a counter-assault vs the Bastion and/or my other Tanks. I am thinking of chilling it behind the Bastion or some other LoS blocking (or cover rewarding) terrain. The Immolator I am not sure of yet.

If I go first, shoot my full power of weapons at him, keep my Rhinos out of sight. Do not move with anything else, this will pretty much force him on his turn to start moving, which in turn would act as if he went first.

My turn two will give me another round of shooting before he can bring in his fliers. I can move my Land Raider up to intercept either bikes or Trukk, BT Rhino can move to be ready for a counter-attack/assault vs whatever the other threat might be by then.

Then take it how it plays out.

Thoughts? Things might change dependent on deployment (W vs L vs corners) and what terrain is there to help. The Lootas are going to be the toughest thing vs my tanks turn 1/2.

[pretre]

Just keep in mind that the bikes and trukk can move far and that if he gets an assault off against the bastion or land raider, he will pop them. That's why I'm saying keep everything back and let him go first. His shooting sucks and you'll kick his ass if you get the charge off.

[3eland]

Yeah i guess the bikes can go 12", so he could probably make an assault turn 1 if I deploy everything in range. Also the Trukk is a "Fast" vehicle, so it can move 12" in the movement phase?

Guess it is the back of the board! or what, 25" away from his line? LOL

Land Raider can move 6", Termies disembark 6" and then assault on average 7". Effectively giving me an 18" threat range. If the bikes are up past middle I can assault them turn 1, if not then I am kind of forced to stay back until turn 2.

[pretre]

Last thing, and I'm out for the night, don't underestimate the shooting on the bikes. It is a nasty anti-infantry gun.

[3eland]

Last thing, and I'm out for the night, don't underestimate the shooting on the bikes. It is a nasty anti-infantry gun.

Yeah I got the book, the 18" S5 Assault 3 is nothing to ignore on my T3 Sisters.

Thanks Pretre and MM for your helpful advice.

I shall post the BR later/tomorrow!

[MagickalMemories]

Okay. Finally had time to get here and catch up.
Comments in red, in an effort to keep them in context. Also note that I know he's changed his list but, without knowing ALL the details, I will only comment on what I know, as I know it.

MM, I'm gonna have to disagree with a lot of that.

Disagree with ME? Well, I know who's getting banned NEXT!

The Trukk Squad is boys or Nobs, not Meganobs. Megaz are bulky and wouldn't fit that many models. The Bikes are almost certainly Nob Bikers. You're totally right that those are probably lootas though.

Brainfart. In my world, nobody wastes points on any Nob that isn't on a bike. Silly me, couldn't fathom anyone taking REGUALR Nobs. IMO, just not a good unit. You're right, though. It's a Nob unit.
Definitely right about the Lootas. If you enlarge the pic, it's clear what they are.
Note that he has THREE Power Klaws on the Bikes, 3 Big Choppas, what looks like probably a Painboy (FNP) and probably a single Boss Pole on an otherwise naked Nob. I'm sure the Warboss has a Klaw and should also have an Attack Squig and BPole of his own. SHOULD.
His regular Nob unit has 4 PKlaws and 4 BChoppas. Also has a Painboy and what looks to be a single, otherwise naked BPole Nob. Warboss should have a squig and BPole, too, as well as a PK.
He has a LOT of points in these 2 units. Hobble them and his game goes down the crapper.


Pop the Trukk with an exorcist to slow them down and then focus everything on the nob bikers, including assault.

We're not in too much disagreement. The problem with your plan, though, is you're not taking in Ork randomness. Pop the trukk and it could Kareen into your lines, unloading a mess of PK Nobs, ready to assault on their turn. If you've already committed everything to the Bikes, this will leave you reeling. I think you have to be aggressive against his army. You probably have him outnumbered, when it comes to models prepared to handle HtH combat. Every it you weaken him BEFORE combat makes your combat that much easier.

The Lootas really can't do much other than pop transports, which isn't going to cause much trouble. Just keep the exorcists so the front facing is pointed at the lootas.

Not true. They can glance exorcists to death.
You're looking at 27 models. That's anywhere from 27 to 72 shots per turn, with an average of 54. *IF* he rolls average, you're looking at 18 hits per turn. That's six 6's. That will remove all the HPs of an Exorcist (they just have 3. Right?). Maybe you save one of those. Maybe. I wouldn't bet MY game on it if I were you.
You're also under-rating the act of popping transports. Sisters may have 3+ armor, but they're little girls with a T3. Once they're popped, the Dakkajets and Bikes shoot them down in droves.

Do NOT disembark your troops sisters unless absolutely no other choice. 3 extra bolters is not worth the loss of protection. Also, MM, his Heavy Flamers can't outflank, just the dominions.

My bad on the Flamers. I don't know the unit names that well. I thought the Dominions WERE the H Flamers.
I wouldn't outflank with the Dominions. Those shots will be more valuable against his Nobs (Meltas insta-Kill the guys in the trukk).
Speaking of the Trukk Nobs; remember that template weapons now damage units embarked in open top transports, too. Take some flamer shots at the trukk and get free hits on the Nobs.
I'll still hold out that you SHOULD jump everyone out of the vehicles (keeping the vehicles between them and the lootas where possible. You give him a lot of juicy targets for assault, but you'll do some damage with overwatch and have a GREAT counter-assault on your turn. Your A3 will hold up well to the non-PK hits, and you should get to throw your shots first (you DO have power weapons in your units. Right?

Send the Seraphim after lootas and let them take opportunity shots/assaults on the way there.

Also, I like the idea of letting him have first turn, just deploy back far enough that he won't trick you into assault.

Trukks can get a pretty long distance assault, iirc.
Oh, Lord, I wouldn't do that. The Seraphim are going to get shot to HELL on the wat in to the Lootas. Their T is too low. Does your Seraphim Sgt (or whatever) have multiple wounds? Won't matter. S7. I foresee Celestine spending the whole game trying to get back up after being shot to Hell, if you try this. Seraphim should (IMO) flame the Hell out of the Nobs, and assault them (Hammer of Wrath for free hits). I would use TH/SS against the Bikes.

He informed me he changed the list slightly to add a defense line for his shooters. So I think his game plan is to hide back with the lootas, assault with the rest.

Noted on the Nobs. Obviously an unbound list? Or are Nobs troops?

Likely, he'll spread the defense line out in a long line, hiding both units behind it. This will be better for you, if you're following my advice, as your BT's wont have to split up. They can fire off, right down the middle.
You're right about his plan, of course. It is the only plan Orks have. LOL "Keep da shootys back an' git da rest uv da boyz stuck in!"

Okay.

So stay to the back of the board first turn, let him come at me. Focus shooting on the Trukk first turn? With a defensive line that give the lootas a 4+ cover right? The 4+ cover on the bikers will be a problem until i can get into flamer range.

The Bastion, if placed well (assuming I go second, hopefully he doesn't force me to go first) could unload a lot of shots at his Lootas or bikes.

Also, wouldn't the advantage be mine to go first, stay back with everything and just shoot? Exorcists have 48" and HB have 36" If I place the Bastion up so it can hit everything on the board it should be able to do a lot of damage turn one. He won't have anything that can bring it down with shooting right?

SoB range is 12 to 24 inches. That's where you're strongest in shooting. If you go first, you want to stay back. He'll probably come forward 24" with both units, foregoing shooting, in an effort to get as close as possible. It's conceivable that he'll shoot with the bikes, instead of TBoosting, if you have targets in range.
He will probably WANT to go first, to get as close as possible, as soon as possible.

Just keep in mind that the bikes and trukk can move far and that if he gets an assault off against the bastion or land raider, he will pop them. That's why I'm saying keep everything back and let him go first. His shooting sucks and you'll kick his ass if you get the charge off.

We agree here.

Okay... now, for new stuff... Does the TL Cannon still have Intercept? If so, keep that in mind when he brings his Dakkajets on. You'll lose your shots with it on your next turn, but you get to (hopefully) annihilate one of his flyers at the end of his Move phase, before it gets the opportunity to shoot.
Speaking of which... remember that he has the ability to make them BS3 with Flyer Ace (?)... That makes 'em substantially more betterer.

I still say you should play the "Dwarven Bear Claw" dual pronged approach with this and go after both units. If you MUST focus on one, I agree that it should be the bikes.
If I was playing this army, I'd drive the bikes straight at you, surrounding the trukk. I'd give the Trukk a cover save from my bikers and ensure that it doesn't go Kareening off anywhere. Twenty-four inches on Turn 1 from everything. Deal with it all or get assaulted.

Meanwhile, the Lootas pepper targets of opportunity. What I shoot depends on what looks to be the biggest target. If I can get your Dominions and HFlamers walking, I'll do that. Might take pot shots at the Seraphim, too. It's all situational. In a perfect world, YOU decide what he can and can't target with smart model placement.

I look forward to your Batrep! When is the game?

Eric