Counters to Overwatch...

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Jaster386 ( 12 )
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Counters to Overwatch...

Post by Jaster386 »

Now that the new Tau codex is out and they have some additives to their Overwatch abilities. Are things like The Masque from the Daemons codex and Dirge Casters from the Chaos codex going to become standard load outs to counter overwatch? I know that the chance of getting hits during overwatch are somewhat lower, unless you are Tau. Just wanted to know what other people's thoughts on the subject are? I also haven't had a chance to look through the DA codex yet to know whether they have something to either help or counter overwatch or some other special rule?
Is this the direction that GW is headed with the new codexs? Going towards items or abilities changing certain rules of the game? Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before since there wasn't as many rules in 5th.
Just my thoughts and questions....
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optimusprime14 ( 100 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by optimusprime14 »

A sacrific unit. Send them in first and then charge with everything else. A unit can only overwatch once...

Even with Tau getting supporting fire, it is still only BS1, they may get 1 of 2 marker lights and then it's a little different, but I don't think it's something that needs a counter, just better planning
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kturock ( 590 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by kturock »

well, when 40k was a shooting game before, there was such a thing as a screening unit. a unit that ran in front of the main/stronger/primary unit and gave them a cover screen.
also known as cannon fodder...
also know as forlorn hope.

it's also a historicly valid tactic.

nids used to use gants; termagants and hormagants.
orks used to use grots.
CSM used cheap deamons.

now, every army has cheap models. that's what they're used for.
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MagickalMemories ( 832 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by MagickalMemories »

optimusprime14 wrote:A sacrific unit. Send them in first and then charge with everything else. A unit can only overwatch once...

Even with Tau getting supporting fire, it is still only BS1, they may get 1 of 2 marker lights and then it's a little different, but I don't think it's something that needs a counter, just better planning
If I remember the tau codex, though (and I've only looked at it once, so I admit the possibility), units within 6" can fire at assaulting units, too, even if the firing unit isn't the one being shot at, and they don't have to fire at ONLY the first assaulting unit. All a savvy Tau player needs to do is recognize the tactic (which, face it, is pretty easy to recognize) and hold back some of his shooting until you declare your assault with the meatier unit.

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pretre ( 1340 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by pretre »

Each unit only gets one overwatch volley, so while the supporting units can choose to fire at the other dudes, it still isn't drowning them in fire. I think like most new things it is a little overdone that it will be the death of assault, etc so on.
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by MagickalMemories »

pretre wrote:Each unit only gets one overwatch volley, so while the supporting units can choose to fire at the other dudes, it still isn't drowning them in fire. I think like most new things it is a little overdone that it will be the death of assault, etc so on.
Right... so, good luck assaulting them if they're castling, or using FW units in support of/shielding the units you REALLY want to get to.

Eric
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by Jaster386 »

So basically one needs to either screen your power assault units, multi-assault to cut down on the number of shots at each unit or just take your chances and assault with just one unit. Good to know. I have been in the hobby for a couple of years now, but am now only starting the intricacies of the game in regards to the strategy. I know that I still have a long way to go, but I am now one step closer on a very long journey. Thanks for all the help.
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pretre ( 1340 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by pretre »

MagickalMemories wrote:
pretre wrote:Each unit only gets one overwatch volley, so while the supporting units can choose to fire at the other dudes, it still isn't drowning them in fire. I think like most new things it is a little overdone that it will be the death of assault, etc so on.
Right... so, good luck assaulting them if they're castling, or using FW units in support of/shielding the units you REALLY want to get to.

Eric
Serious? I mean... I know you don't like 6th, but I think this is a bit over done.

Okay, let's imagine a wacky situation.

3x12 FireW
3x10 Pathfinders
Ethereal

You charge one of the FW and everyone is in range. So what, they get 10/6 (~1) hit with the first set of Markerlights. That gives them 10/3 (~3)for the second Pathfinder squad. That gives the third one 10/2(~5) ML with one left over. So you now have 6 Markerlights to throw out for the 3 FW squads. Basically, 72 (or 108 with Ethereal) S5 AP5 shots hitting on 4's. 36(54) Hits. So yes, if you are playing a 5+ or worse save unit, you are in trouble here. (30 wounds, 24 after 5+ cover save). But that is one unit. Let's say you're orks. That is one unit that dies horribly. If you are assaulting his firing line with only one unit, you've got bigger issues.

If they split up the shooting, they are less effective and they will waste markerlights. You can't cascade the ML hits effectively on multiple units. Also, keep in mind that LOS, cover and so on are all still in effect. Chances are even your no armor save assault unit will get a 5+ cover save from the intervening FW that you are assaulting. Sure, they can remove that, but then they hit with a lot less shots.

Also, this behavior of Tau removes one of the big negatives for disordered charges (getting hit by multiple overwatches). Screw it, I want to assault everything in the tau army. If they are all bunched up to castle and overwatch, there is little to no reason not to charge the whole line. Oh no, I lose my charge attack and get stuck in combat with them. :)

Is it good? Sure. Is it OMG assault is over!!! Hardly.
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by MagickalMemories »

Except that you're presuming I'll have full size units assaulting his line.
What Tau player who's worth his salt is going to let that happen?

Also, two of my 4 armies are Orks & DE. LOL

Eric
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pretre ( 1340 )
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Re: Counters to Overwatch...

Post by pretre »

MagickalMemories wrote:Except that you're presuming I'll have full size units assaulting his line.
What Tau player who's worth his salt is going to let that happen?

Also, two of my 4 armies are Orks & DE. LOL

Eric
Scr-ewed. :)
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