Mech Tau: how many XV8s are actually too many?

[fgervais]

Greetings,

Long time member, recently returning after almost 7 years, have played a bit in between but I want to get more involved again.

I have a partial Tau army that I will be completing in October, and I'm a bit puzzled but the current view on XV8 Crisis suits in the Tau lists I've been seeing.

I'm aiming for a 2k Mech Tau list. I used to deploy 2 Commanders with 2 separate XV8 teams for hilarious drive-by pew-pew action. Most of the lists I see today seem to deploy only a partial, single unit, with more emphasis on the Stealthsuits.

I'm still reading up on current game theory, but I'm still a bit confused, thoughts on the XV8's place in a modern Tau army?

[Artic_Hawk]

Normally i've noticed two squads of three is what tau players often have, the weapons used vary depend on what the player likes but normally no more than the two squads for 1500pt matches with twin linked missile launchers

[William143]

It's been a while since I've looked in the Tau Codex, but iirc, Crisis Suits are an elite choice, aren't they? With most games revolving around objectives in 6th ed, I could see why people would take more Stealth Suits, which are a troop choice, even over fire warriors (doesn't Stealth add a +1 to cover saves?)
XV8's will always be useful due to their wide range of weapon choices, combined with their maneuverability, but if they're an elite choice, the best they can do is contest an objective, and, of course, the infamous Jump shoot Jump tactics (unless they took out the assault move in 6th. I hope they didn't. If they did, that's probably a good reason why you see fewer XV8's.) If I remember it right, the only way you can get a troop choice of Crisis Suits is if you take Commander Farsight. But if you take him, you're severely penalized on your heavy support choices.

Again, it's been a while since I read the tau 'dex, but I am pretty sure it has mainly to do with how many objective games there are, as well as the cover nerf (most cover being 5+ now)

[Phorge]

(...)Stealth Suits, which are a troop choice(...)

...what..?
They are still in the Elite section, and in the 6th edition rules, they may be denial units - as every other unit, but not scoring.

I've been playing Tau since 2010, and no, I don't think Stealth suits are of any use. Stealth may be very good, but XV8's bring much more variety to the army. And Stealths can only bring more 18" S5 AP5 shots - which FWs already have plenty. Fusion blasters? Really? A unit with 3 models has 2 Burst Cannons and can take a maximum of one FB, and all that costs 92 points, while a unit of three XV8's could bring 2 BC plus one FB for only 103 points - that's 33 points for the XV8's carrying BC and 37 for the one with FB. As for the Stealth suits, that's 30 points for each model with a BC and 32 for the one with FB. Now the XV8's have two Wounds instead of one and Toughness 4 instead of 3. Is that Stealth all that valuable?

IMO, the most important thing about the XV8's (as HQ's or Elites) is that they allow you to bring weapon diversity coupled with maneuverability to your army. Flamers, rapid fire S6 AP2's, 2x S7's! How else will you destroy light vehicles? By jeopardizing your now-less-durable Hammerhead? Or by moving your slow and sensitive Broadsides? How will you destroy T5 Feel No Pain Chaos SMs and SM Terminators? By buying ridiculously expensive ($) Sniper Drones? Or by hauling 24+ FW's across the battlefield to finish a unit of 5 of those models? (and that at dangerous rapid fire range).

Of course the XV8's can't do everything, specially because they can't put out all those number of shots per turn, but they'll always be able to support you FW's, the Pathfinders and provide some level of protection for Hammerheads and Broadsides. But for me, they are the backbone of any successful Tau army, specially at higher point games (>1500). My lists always have the maximum of XV8's possible, without affecting the purpose of the other units I select for that specific army. As long as you mind your "XV8 footprint" (teams of two models have less volume that three, which is important when you're trying to hide them behind scenery), you could field teams of two or even three XV8's (which also incurs in bringing Bonding Knives).

[TheRhino]

Stealth Suits are sexy right now because they have both Shrouded AND Stealth, which stack. That's a +3 to cover saves. So, a suit in area terrain has a 2+ cover save. Crisis suits don't have that luxury.

[Phorge]

Stealth Suits are sexy right now because they have both Shrouded AND Stealth, which stack. That's a +3 to cover saves. So, a suit in area terrain has a 2+ cover save. Crisis suits don't have that luxury.

Interesting point, but so what? It's harder to hit you, but what difference are S5 shots going to do to your army when they're already abundant in your mandatory Troop choices? I'd rather bring different (and more powerful) weaponry on my Battlesuits.

Now, Stealth suits could be made into interesting tank hunting units with Fusion Blaster...

[TheRhino]

I didn't say it was a rational choice, just that they're more durable now than they used to be. Add in the changes to shooting (Overwatch, wounds from the front, etc) and the ability to reroll baord edges for Outflank, and they're not terrible.
Local Tau players are just thankful they don't have to run the same exact army list over and over with cookie cutter Crisis Suit squads and such.